Chinese capital?

What city location should the Chinese start at?

  • Beijing

    Votes: 55 44.4%
  • Nanjing

    Votes: 11 8.9%
  • Xi'an

    Votes: 33 26.6%
  • Chang'an

    Votes: 25 20.2%

  • Total voters
    124
Anyang or Nanjing. I would rather see Anyang, but one takes what they can. Better access to marble anyhow.
 
Anyang or Nanjing. I would rather see Anyang, but one takes what they can. Better access to marble anyhow.
I'm afraid neither is "appropriate".
Anyang was the capital of Yin (later name for Dynast Shang), long long history, but is (and has been for a long time) just a relic among farmland, no more a city. When we talk about a "capital", we talk about a city "alive".
As for Nanjing, it was a capital for several kingdoms, but never an empire (a dynasty which rules the whole China) until Dynast Ming in 1368AD, even after Beijing. So if Beijing not, neither can Nanjing. What's more, the title of capital was moved to Beijing by Ming's 3rd emperor in 1403AD, making Nanjing's capital history only 36 years.
 
I'm afraid neither is "appropriate".
Anyang was the capital of Yin (later name for Dynast Shang), long long history, but is (and has been for a long time) just a relic among farmland, no more a city. When we talk about a "capital", we talk about a city "alive".
As for Nanjing, it was a capital for several kingdoms, but never an empire (a dynasty which rules the whole China) until Dynast Ming in 1368AD, even after Beijing. So if Beijing not, neither can Nanjing. What's more, the title of capital was moved to Beijing by Ming's 3rd emperor in 1403AD, making Nanjing's capital history only 36 years.

You mean you do.

When I talk about starting 'capital' in a game that starts in 3000 BCE, I'm talking "Dawn-Of-Civ-in-a-river-valley." Therefore, Anyang is the best spot, as it's IN said river valley.

And, if you're going to get technical..."In politics, a capital (also called capital city or political capital — although the latter phrase has a second meaning based on an alternative sense of "capital") is the center of government."

Which means even a country hovel qualifies, if it's the center of government. As for the term empire...lets not go there please...it's a misnomer Fixaris uses anyway.
 
Can we reignite the discussion on this please? I really think Luoyang would be preferable, since it centrally located and has most of the same resources as Beijing, and historically older.
 
Outside of the discussions about what capitol is best, most are ignoring the gameplay concept of this. Rhye and others have talked about this before. This topic is bringing back a lot of deja-vu, heh. Bejing, gameplay-wise, despite being so close to Mongolia's spawn area, is the best choice. If the capitol is south, then China expands southward way too much, and nearly completely ignores the north; I tried it myself a few times, and when they spawn at a more southern capitol, the borders get really messed up, with them going right into Khmer before they spawn. I know gameplay-wise for the player, it would be an interesting twist, but the AI just messes it up.

Also, northern China is a production mega-house. I like expanded evenly both ways, not just being locked right in the middle of China.
 
Outside of the discussions about what capitol is best, most are ignoring the gameplay concept of this. Rhye and others have talked about this before. This topic is bringing back a lot of deja-vu, heh. Bejing, gameplay-wise, despite being so close to Mongolia's spawn area, is the best choice. If the capitol is south, then China expands southward way too much, and nearly completely ignores the north; I tried it myself a few times, and when they spawn at a more southern capitol, the borders get really messed up, with them going right into Khmer before they spawn. I know gameplay-wise for the player, it would be an interesting twist, but the AI just messes it up.

Also, northern China is a production mega-house. I like expanded evenly both ways, not just being locked right in the middle of China.

Same viewpoint as yours.
As I have mentioned in the Turkish capital thread, gameplay is also a crucial element. Additionally to Fallensig's points, Luoyang, Xian, Chang'an....these cities which are located in the middle of China are nearly surrounded by mountains in the map of RFC. Even if there will not be any negative impact on the development, the present strategies will have to be greatly altered:lol:

Also as a Chinese myself, it is "quite" unnatural for me to see Chinese having capitals elsewhere:lol: (Not important though:lol: )

This issue, if only based on historical factors, may lead to a great debate, so let's focus more on gameplay:)
 
Being the God that he is, Rhye can flatten mountains, move resources...:)

We are trying to be more historically correct, right? (Jerusalem now has the Church of the Nativity, Europe has more time in the Medieval Ages, Christianity is binding all those nations, trying hard for Islam to spread faster, etc) So gameplay can be adapted to make history more correctly simulated. It is very easy to put more forests near Beijing while moving some of the resources down to Luoyang (which has 2 mountains in its big cross, as opposed to 1 desert for Beijing). Luoyang is right on the Yellow River which is good for future production (levees, 3 Gorges Dam). A central location for the capital will also allow easier spread of religion. Conversely, Beijing will no longer be able to rely just on cultural defenses when the Mongolians spawn.

As far as the AI is concerned, it can be directed not to found more cities south (just like the British who always found the 4 cities they're supposed to). If they over extend in Khmer too bad for them, they'll lose those cities. Historically southern China wasn't "sinicized" until the late Han dynasty, so current game play isn't correct either.

I don't think Rhye is going to do any of this though.:(
 
As far as the AI is concerned, it can be directed not to found more cities south (just like the British who always found the 4 cities they're supposed to).

Do they though? In several games I've seen a Celtic city (don't remember the name, unfortunately) sitting where Dublin normally is - generally being culture swamped by Belfast :lol: It's not there when the British spawn, so it must spawn afterwards which implies they were tardy settling Ireland. Rhye, what exactly is this city? When does it spawn?

As for the movement of the Church of the Nativity, I got the impression that was as much for gameplay as for historical reasons, and clearly gameplay is of high priority. I don't want to see China regularly losing half its cities to the Khmer, that seems screwy to me.
 
Do they though? In several games I've seen a Celtic city (don't remember the name, unfortunately) sitting where Dublin normally is - generally being culture swamped by Belfast :lol: It's not there when the British spawn, so it must spawn afterwards which implies they were tardy settling Ireland. Rhye, what exactly is this city? When does it spawn?

it's Dublin
 
Similarly, I think the capital of the United States should be Philadelphia. It was the first capital, after all.
 
Do they though? In several games I've seen a Celtic city (don't remember the name, unfortunately) sitting where Dublin normally is - generally being culture swamped by Belfast :lol: It's not there when the British spawn, so it must spawn afterwards which implies they were tardy settling Ireland. Rhye, what exactly is this city? When does it spawn?

As for the movement of the Church of the Nativity, I got the impression that was as much for gameplay as for historical reasons, and clearly gameplay is of high priority. I don't want to see China regularly losing half its cities to the Khmer, that seems screwy to me.

It's the Irish name for Dublin...I think that it should be producing more culture so it doesn't just flip to England
 
Áth Cliath is Irish for Dublin county; the city is called Baile Átha Cliath.

I think Dublin should not be founded as a scripted event at all. Dublin was a Viking city built on a small Celtic settlement, incorporated in 988 AD. England always seems quite eager to found it; its removal would slow English growth a bit, but it would still exist in most games.
 
Áth Cliath is Irish for Dublin county; the city is called Baile Átha Cliath.

I think Dublin should not be founded as a scripted event at all. Dublin was a Viking city built on a small Celtic settlement, incorporated in 988 AD. England always seems quite eager to found it; its removal would slow English growth a bit, but it would still exist in most games.

I think it should be founded and let the english try and conquer it...ireland wasn't fully conquered for centuries afterwards and even then there were numerous rebellions against the english supported by the french and spanish at different times
 
I think it should be founded and let the english try and conquer it...ireland wasn't fully conquered for centuries afterwards and even then there were numerous rebellions against the english supported by the french and spanish at different times

But Dublin was under English control whenever they controlled any significant portion of Ireland in the past. If it's supposed to be a specifically Irish resisting city, Galway would probably be most appropriate.
 
Back
Top Bottom