Choke points vs funnels

[Horserush]

Thinking in terms of 1UPT, it seems to me that a choke point wouldn't necessarily be the best defensive option during wartime. If you've got your forces choking off one or two tiles and the land opens up beyond that, you're looking at a situation where your troops become outnumbered and partially surrounded. For example you've got two troops choking off a mountain pass that consists of two hexes and that opens up into flatland with 3 or more hexes beyond your chokepoint. Your troops could be in for trouble!

What might be better defensively is a funnel, where you create a sort of gauntlet that funnels enemy troops through a small opening which you have surrounded. This way you are no longer outnumbered, and since the AI loves to pass up heavily defended tiles in favor of less defended tiles, you could bait them into going for a unit at the end of the gauntlet and rain destruction down upon them as they pass through.

Just some food for thought

 

[migkillertwo]

If the enemy breaks through then it could become a problem. But until then a defending civ needs to take advantage of these chokepoints. Unless the script for generating maps specifically creates lots of chokepoints I don't see this becoming too big a problem.

 

[Horserush]

But thats my point, choke points may be less effective with 1UPT. You might be better off allowing them through and picking them off as they pass, unit by unit.

 

[Polobo]

When you have a choke point you want to place the enemy units inside the choke position, not your own, to so you have more units on the front compared to them. Equal numbers are OK as well, or you can be outnumbered if you have superior fortifications inside the choke point (though even then you'd probably be better off on the edge of it). The main variable is the terrain around and inside the choke as facing a larger front while on high ground can be preferable than attacking the high-ground from multiple fronts.

 

[matt112986]

It would make the most sense to have your units directly outside the choke point in your territory. The choke point will limit their forces while yours are on open ground. A funnel may work as well and I have thought about using them as a tactic but blocking the area just outside the choke point may prove to be more effective.

 

[tom2050]

Choke point can't really be defended any better without a fortress type structure, otherwise the defender is in the same position as the attacker essentially, it becomes WW1 until one side runs low on units.

I agree, probably better off backing out of the choke point a little bit.

 

[Mannu]

The enemy facing edges of the funnel will have to be strong units with a terrain advantage that makes it difficult to assault them one vs one and also difficult to flank them with extra units (mountains, seas, lakes, etc...).

If I were defending and I had the troops to support it I would do as Polobo suggests, but I would both block the choke-point and have troops in reserve that to be prepared to flank the enemy if they broke through.

This really is all so terrain and unit dependent though. I love 1UPT and hexes...

 

[Seven05]

Thinking in terms of 1UPT, it seems to me that a choke point wouldn't necessarily be the best defensive option during wartime. If you've got your forces choking off one or two tiles and the land opens up beyond that, you're looking at a situation where your troops become outnumbered and partially surrounded. For example you've got two troops choking off a mountain pass that consists of two hexes and that opens up into flatland with 3 or more hexes beyond your chokepoint. Your troops could be in for trouble!

What might be better defensively is a funnel, where you create a sort of gauntlet that funnels enemy troops through a small opening which you have surrounded. This way you are no longer outnumbered, and since the AI loves to pass up heavily defended tiles in favor of less defended tiles, you could bait them into going for a unit at the end of the gauntlet and rain destruction down upon them as they pass through.

Just some food for thought

Erm... I think you misunderstand how to use a choke point

In Civ 4 you plopped your unit in the one tile that passed through. That worked because of stacks and square tiles. That, however, is not the 'propper military' use of a choke point.

The purpose of a choke point is to limit the space available for your opponent to use without limiting the space you have to use. So rather than placing your unit on the one tile opening you place it adjacent to that one tile opening. This way, even if you only have one unit you can force the enemy to fight you at even numbers (remember the ZoC rules), if you have more than one unit you force the enemy to fight against superior numbers even if they have more total units. If this is unclear because you're not used to hexes, don't worry once you see the hex maps and get used to playing on them it all start to make a lot more sense.

The problem with your 'funnel' theory is that there is nothing stopping your opponent form chosing where along that 'gauntlet' they wish to attack you. If there is something prventing this (e.g. a mountain range) then you are in fact talking about a choke point, see above.

The issue you'll face most is that it's likely that there will be very few true choke points available so you most common tactical decision is going to be how you can place your units to maximize their defense (rivers, hills, forests, etc) while leaving the enemy exposed to your counter attacks (flatlands) and not stretching yourself so thin as to make it easy for them to concentrate on a small number of your units to break the line.

 

[Horserush]

Erm... I think you misunderstand how to use a choke point

In Civ 4 you plopped your unit in the one tile that passed through. That worked because of stacks and square tiles. That, however, is not the 'propper military' use of a choke point.

...and this is exacty what most people used to Civ titles think of when they think of a choke point. I'm just saying, this is probably not the way to go in Civ 5.

 

[Seven05]

...and this is exacty what most people used to Civ titles think of when they think of a choke point. I'm just saying, this is probably not the way to go in Civ 5.

I would be more bold and say there is no 'probably' about it.

Edit: Oh and I believe I misread your OP since we seem to both be saying the same thing.

 

[12agnar0k]

This is why I love 1UpT, people can come up with crazy chess like tactical strategies like this, certainly, multiplayer will be a good amount of fun now .

 

[SalmonSoil]

I want to know how easy it will be to flank the enemy (Not gain a flanking bonus, but literally flanking). I know it's going to be the first strategy I try (I'm playing Greeks first hoplite /companion hammer and anvil).