1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[GS] Chopping overflow is gone (announced by Ed Beach)!

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Tomice, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Tomice

    Tomice Passionate Smart-Ass

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Location:
    Austria, EU, no kangaroos ;)
    This was maybe the most impactful statement of the Maori live stream:
    Chopping overflow is gone according to Ed!

    As of GS, if you use a policy card that boosts the production of ships +100% and are actually building a galley, only the part of the chop that's actually used for the galley is boosted. If you select a land unit next (or have it in the new queue), the remainder of the chop only applies normally.

    Also, if you have the ship-boost card and build a land unit while chopping, any leftover from the chop will be boosted if you select a ship next.

    This change will also be applied to vanilla and R&F.
    _________________________

    Personally, I'm more than happy!!!! :woohoo:

    Chopping overflow was gamey, unimmersive and encouraged weird strategies (e.g. build ships to boost wonders).
    It also aggravated the AI weakness as it wouldn't know how to use this exploit.

    This alone probably makes the AI one difficulty level stronger.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  2. Bitterman

    Bitterman Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Granada, Spain
    Yes, yes, yes!!!

    This was just neccesary.
     
  3. Midori

    Midori Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Messages:
    37
    I'm not going to say I didn't enjoy doing this ... frequently ... but it's better for the game to not have this kind of exploit.
     
    Greywulf, Guandao, Jkchart and 2 others like this.
  4. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,039
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Of course Magnus still gives +50% and is still quite powerful. And chopping/harvesting is still quite powerful in general.

    I have never once used the overflow exploit. I can honestly say I never used it a single time. But I do use Magnus quite a bit, it's obvious he was intended to be used this way.
     
  5. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,011
    Location:
    Toronto
    This is nice, because you don't have to micro-manage to abuse the exploit anymore. Was a pretty obvious thing to fix, and definitely will be a welcome change. As he also alluded to, this change will be coming to the base game too, for anyone who didn't buy the expansion.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,181
    It's unreasonable to call this an "exploit" but the projected functionality nevertheless makes more sense. I doubt it's enough to make not-harvesting competitive but at least it'll close that gap to a degree.
     
  7. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    160
    Gender:
    Male
    In the Maori stream, Ed mentioned that Production overflow will no longer work in GS. What will become the new optimal playstyle? How much will the nerf affect best finish times (ignoring possible SV and CV changes)?

    I know I gotta rethink my way of playing Civ VI completely. Couple of thoughts:
    - Chops must be matched with the buildings theyre used for, so timing of chops might become even more important with scaling District costs.
    - Magnus will be absolutely essential for chops since 100% Production bonus cards no longer help.
    - Chopping a new Builders will no longer be a thing due to lost Production. Monumentality and Faith will be essential for a chop economy.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  8. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,181
    No way to make a decent prediction of finish times without seeing full changes. You might get something else that speeds things up too. Chop nerf should alter fast-finish meta at least a little though.
     
  9. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    160
    Gender:
    Male
    Finish time predictions may be difficult, certainly. Yields seem to be generally stronger with Fertility, but there is no way these can offset the chop nerf in fast games.

    Speculations on game style changes will be interesting, however.
     
  10. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    473
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Philadelphia, USA
    I don’t think he said production overflow is gone just that the overflow won’t automatically get a bonus from cards if the next item doesn’t match the policy, correct?
     
    Sostratus, Elhoim and Turrdy like this.
  11. bite

    bite Unoffical Civilization Geographer Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,753
    Moderator Action: Merged the two Chopping threads
     
  12. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,617
    Location:
    San Jose, California
  13. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    160
    Gender:
    Male
    Okay, it is very important how exactly the change will be implemented. I havent had time to watch the stream (just read the thread) so cant comment on the exact words Ed used.
     
  14. darkace77450

    darkace77450 King

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    993
    He said it will overflow when appropriate. So production from chopping with Maritime Industries slotted will overflow if the next building project is another naval unit, but be lost if anything else is queued up next.
     
    tedhebert and Temppu like this.
  15. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    186
    Gender:
    Male
    While I'm glad that you can't abuse this anymore, it will probably feel pretty bad in game... The production scaling relative to techs in Civ VI is one of my least favorite things about the game, and abusing this exploit is one of the only ways you can stay competitive. Hopefully they either scale production down to something more reasonable or introduce more ways to get production, because right now... I don't know, it just feels un-fun.
     
    Karmah, Jkchart and whyidie like this.
  16. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    4,011
    Location:
    Toronto
    Yeah, from the sounds of things, basically they'll calculate based on current policies how much of the chop goes into the current bucket. And then any overflow next turn would simply have the next modifier applied to it.
     
  17. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Messages:
    473
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Philadelphia, USA
    I could be wrong but I don’t think that’s what he said at all. You will always get overflow on your next build but the game waits to see what you select to build next before applying any policy bonus to that overflow production.
     
    Jkchart, Ituralde, Elhoim and 2 others like this.
  18. kryat

    kryat Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    534
    Gender:
    Male
    Note, the fact that chopping is powerful was never viewed as an exploit. The exploit was using production bonus cards to boost production on unrelated items. It may feel that way, but to many people, this was a glaring bug that was widely exploited.

    One of the best summations came back when R+F was being demonstrated:

    When the “Letters of Marque” card was first seen, one person remarked how useful it would be for a space victory. Someone else’s response was to the effect of, “I know you could use the card that way, but clearly it was meant to encourage you to play as a pirate, and not to use the production boost toward naval raiders to slingshot yourself to a space victory by quickly building universities.”
     
    Equilin, Karmah, Jkchart and 4 others like this.
  19. Temppu

    Temppu Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Messages:
    160
    Gender:
    Male
    Appropriate would maybe be something like:
    - Chop yields Production 100
    - Galley costs 65
    - With 100% card you effectively need 33 of chops Production for the Galley
    - You have 67 Production remaining for overflow, which is not boosted by the 100% card (unless more Galleys are built)

    I wonder if this is how it will be implemented.
     
    Turrdy likes this.
  20. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,136
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Yes, that is how I interpreted it. Production multipliers still apply for the current build, and extra production goes to the next build, but no multipliers are applied to the extra production until the next build is selected, and then the multiplier is the one (if any) that matches that next build, not the first build.
     
    Elhoim likes this.

Share This Page