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Chopping

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Rhaeghar, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. Rhaeghar

    Rhaeghar Chieftain

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    For some reason I always feel hesitant to chop down all the forests around my capital right away, I always want to save some forest for later in case I want to build something extra fast.

    When do you higher level players start chopping down forests and do you save any?

    Do you start chopping after you've made necessary immediate improvements and not stop until all the forests in the BFC are gone at least?

    Also do you generally make an improvement or two and then just chop or do you choose to build a mine/farm/whatever to remove the forest that way?

    (clarification)
    Do you improve what needs to be improved, like corn, pigs w/e (up to the # of workable tiles under the early happy cap) and then start chopping away until there's no/few forests or do you improve the remaining tiles rather than just chopping the forests away.
     
  2. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    Thread jack - The forest bug frustrates me to no end. It dumps way more forests in your starting areas than it is supposed to. It totally skews game play.

    That being said, I usually chop 1 or 2 to start and leave the rest for after math unless I am trying to axe rush, then I chop a lot.
     
  3. Birdman6

    Birdman6 Warlord

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    It's often wise to keep at least 2 forests around because the city gets 1 :health: bonus per 2 forests. Otherwise I think it makes sense to chop earlier than later...generally the earlier you do things the more they pay off in the longrun. Exceptions might be if you plan to build a wonder then you can save your chops for that, or you can wait for mathematics to boost your chop yield.

    Not sure I understand your question, but if you're asking about the difference between chop then improve vs. chop via improve, it takes the same amount of turns. The only difference would be you get the chopped hammers quicker, which could be important depending on the timing of what the city is building.
     
  4. peppe1

    peppe1 Warlord

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    Everyone probably has their own strategy on this.

    Typically i will open worker, 2-4 warriors, settler. I Try to time the warriors to finish with capital at 3-4 pop by adjusting the tiles worked. The worker meanwhile improves resources available then makes at least one mine before I think about roads or chopping.

    Depending on the map and AI's we have found I decide how aggressive to chop and whip settlers and how many workers to get out. If there are good resources (gold/gems, or good choke/block points) I will chop/whip more aggressively to get those items.

    Chop Priority:
    -Chop forests on resources first
    -Riverside/fresh water grassland forests as they will make a better home for a cottage or farm
    -Grassland Forest (Eventually Cottage or Farm/Workshop)
    -Hill Forest (Mine maybe eventually Windmill)

    Save some plains forest for health.

    Fish resources changes this up a bit to get work boats out.

    If i was planning any wonders in the city I would save some forests for the wonder, but i rarely make wonders other than Mids on SE attempts and when i do that i usually settle a city in heavy forest specifically to chop out the mids.
     
  5. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I am an insane chopper. Whether it's for settlers, workers, wonders, or troops, I am always on the lookout for forests to chop. I chop many forests before Mathematics and after Mathematics. In the modern era, it's very rare to see any trees in my territory.
     
  6. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I will chop any trees in my lands but outside a BFC of any cities. I will also chop trees in neutral lands if I can see that an AI border will pop and claim the tiles.
     
  7. jakobin

    jakobin Chieftain

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    i chop when building things that don't grow my population (workers settlers) or i'm racing a wonder.

    only hippies save forests.
     
  8. JBossch

    JBossch King

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    Chop, chop, chop!

    It is difficult to answer your question any better because the circumstances of each game differ so widely. Which is not say its a bad question. The proper use of worker turns, especially early, is a crucial part of improving one's game.

    As for whether to chop or improve, generally improve tiles I guess. Some exceptions might be chopping to get a workboat out or a needed defender or something (or maybe another worker). About the option to chop first or directly mine hills: Usually I chop first because I need the hammers faster. I may directly mine, however, if the tile in question is being worked and there is no better tile to switch to in between.

    Don't forget about pre-chopping (and pre-mining). Chop for 2 turns (on normal speed) and then stop so that you can finish it when you have something worth putting the hammers into. Build a road for added convenience. I mark the pre-chopped tiles with a sticky note so I don't forget where they are.

    In general, I think you will find that most advanced players chop sooner rather than later. Like most aspects of Civ, an advantage leveraged as early as possible can pay off big in the long run.
     
  9. Fluxx

    Fluxx Mr. Almost There

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    Improve tiles you will work immediately or in the next few turns.

    Else chop everything you see when you are building things.

    I tend to work 4-5 tiles in my main city, then keep chopping till settler.

    Settler move to new position, then I will work 2 tiles, move back to capital and chop 2 workers-settler. and repeat.

    The quicker you get out settlers/workers. the quicker you can chop more and work more, the quicker you can... etc :)

    Only if I am teching math I stall chopping forests, or unless I know I want to rush mids f.e. or want to give a hammer poor city some hammers (which I still do rarely).
     
  10. peppe1

    peppe1 Warlord

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    Does the 'Full Of Resources' map script fix the forest bug?

    It has a 'standardization function' for the start point. I've never enabled it, but it looks like you can turn it on and it will do the standardization that the developers intended.

    I have been playing fractal only for a while, but i might try the fractal version included in this script with start point standardization. One for sure that sounds good to turn on is removing unworkable tiles from the start point.
     
  11. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    On the chopping vs. chopping and improve q. I will build a mine etc rather than just chop if the tile in q. is being used by my city at the time. I'll use several workers to get it done reasonably quickly. I try and chop when building larger items I want completed quickly. Early game that can be almost anything though.

    I usually end with no forests left save on tundra but once I can build lumbermills new cities have a chance of forests surviving.
     
  12. troytheface

    troytheface Deity

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    having chopped everything in sight, mountains, spice, enemies land and having played a completely no chop game the evidence is clear.

    forest preserves are the superior.
     
  13. Ignorant Teacher

    Ignorant Teacher Emperor

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    having suffered to slowly climb the levels ladder, noble, prince, monarch, emperor and having played a disastrous deity game the evidence is clear.

    worldbuilding modern armors is the superior.
     
  14. Jaroth

    Jaroth Warlord

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    Forest "bug"?

    I believe the forests within starting locations were an intended feature implemented a while back. It was to balance the starting locations once the power of "chopping" was realized and became a common strategy, because if your starting city didn't have the forests, you'd be somewhat handicapped. (There was also some other tinkering with chopping mechanics to balance it, such as lowering the hammer outputs and also implementing the Mathematics feature.)
     
  15. Morthrod

    Morthrod Chieftain

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    I usually save my chops for when im building settlers/workers, unless im doing earyl rush, because i like to be working 5 improved tiles in my capital as soon as possible.
     
  16. dirtyparrot

    dirtyparrot Upholding Brannigan's Law

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    I'll chop early and often. Any advantage you can get early on is worth more than the advantage you'll get later in the game. I should qualify this by saying that I'll leave several forests in place if my capital has lots of foodplains. I'll especially chop forests just outside the BFC, forests that are about to be claimed by the AI, and any forest in general. I wished that BUG had a pre-chop button for workers (I've made the suggestion to them already, so hopefully it happens).
     
  17. benfp

    benfp Chieftain

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    When starting a game with mining, I'll almost always go to BW/worker first. If I have any resource which has at least a +3 :hammers: | +3 :food: | +3 mix of both yield when improved, I'll improve this resource first if I can - or will prioritize the improvement building tech, e.g. corn -> agriculture.

    Chopping is great to pump out the first workers / settlers and/or to pump them when you badly need them but still want to grow. It's also very nice to rush wonders.

    I like chopping a second worker with the first one, and then use both of the workers to improve tiles which are going to be worked really soon and to chop a settler so my second city will be able to have improvements from the get go.
    I like this tactic a lot but it can not always be pulled and can quickly lead to defeat - esp. on higher levels, but it works great up to Prince or even Monarch.

    BTW, this is my experience for SP / Marathon / Land-rich maps.
     
  18. Beamup

    Beamup Higgs boson

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    See this thread. Most definitely not intended, since the normalizer's penchant for making every single tile a forest blocks off many of the other things it's coded to do.
     
  19. mirthadir

    mirthadir Emperor

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    Chop early, chop hard; keep a few plains forests for health. Growing your economy means that whatever benefit you'd get by waiting on the chop has to be huge. Even a 5% growth rate for the economy per turn means that waiting for math (for instance) means that waiting more than 9 turns to chop (when the chop is 50% stronger) is futile (now prechopping everything and then harvesting everything just after math is a bit different); with the exception of a SSE/WE chopping early just tends to own hands down.
     
  20. wades

    wades Chieftain

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    Leave the worker on the tile to make sure the effort wasn't wasted? Or does it matter?
     

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