Fox Mccloud
Deity
El_Machinae said:Who do we blame for the fact that leprosy exists, Fox?
Satan.
By the way, I was getting the idea that he had wars, genocide, etc. in mind.
El_Machinae said:Who do we blame for the fact that leprosy exists, Fox?
El_Machinae said:I think that there is consensus for that view. That the suffering doesn't actually matter to God, and that the 'end game' is worth it.
Margim said:If God was all loving (my primary contention) then would not God's infinite power would limit suffering. If God is all loving, then God would not use suffering to 'teach us hard lessons', or make us realise consequences?
Margim said:Woops, last time i start a theological thread right before bed... that was a lot of catching up to do.
Okay, another thought to add to the pot...
Could another alternative be that God is indeed all loving and all powerful, but doesn't views suffering through a different paradigm? ie, while we see things as good and evil, to God it is all the same (ie finite existance). In which case, the problem of suffering is solely a human problem, measured by human standards, and thus we should not even consider God when considering why suffering exists?
El_Machinae said:That results in everything being happy and shiny at the end though. Not a common belief system.
The mistake in this argument is that you presume that God could be otherwise, which is flatly untrue.FredLC said:Common argument - to which I always answer that calling God good woyuld, than, be meaningless to our eyes, for such impervious entity could consider also good, for example, to ass-rape underaged girlscouts, and we still would have to call him good, under the idea of "we are too unaware of the ultimated goodness of his decisions".
That would work, but it's nature of merely semantic escapism shows at every turn.
Aphex_Twin said:Then I'm a little confused. If reality is Everything then there is nothing outside reality.
Yet, the channel through which we communicate must be real in some sense. It cannot be subject to our whims and wants, it must, in a manner or another, be.
cgannon64 said:The mistake in this argument is that you presume that God could be otherwise, which is flatly untrue.
What God is now is the only thing God can be - there can be no alternate universe in which he is different. Whatever he says is good, he has always and will forever say is good - and it could not be different.
varwnos said:So god loves people, but at the same time he must remain all powerfull. Just like a bad father who claims that he loves his son, but then beats him up or abuses him psychologically, and the son now has to think that his father in reality does all that because he loves him.
Not hard to see how ussually it is those who had bad parents who end up forming weird religious theories, is it...
Are those folks I should be familar with? I'm not much of a baseball fan, but I guess they are pitchers.Bozo Erectus said:Clemens and Pettite Hmm, Im either Don Zimmer, Chuck Knoblauch, or Jeff Weaver.
Margim said:If God is love, can he be all powerful?
Margim said:If God was all loving (my primary contention) then would not God's infinite power would limit suffering.
Margim said:If God is all loving, then God would not use suffering to 'teach us hard lessons', or make us realise consequences?
MobBoss said:I know many think its a cop-out, but I still believe its a waste of time trying to figure out why an omnipotent being does one thing or another. We are just not intelligent enough to see the big picture, let alone comprehend it all.
JoeM said:We do not understand the motivations for bad things happening in life, but to me it is a logical error to imagine expulsion from the Garden of Eden to a place with no suffering. Ultimately all suffering stems from this.
JoeM said:No. Suffering can be part of our path to salvation, to prevent this would impose limits.
JoeM said:The analogy with the 'bad parent' does not apply with God, for many reasons but primarily because He cannot be bad (whether it is our perception or not is irrelevant).
MobBoss said:Of course god can be loving and all powerful. I know many think its a cop-out, but I still believe its a waste of time trying to figure out why an omnipotent being does one thing or another. We are just not intelligent enough to see the big picture, let alone comprehend it all.
So, in my book, silly question to start with.