Christianity and Religion, a convert's perspective

[LesCanadiens]

Many would bash religion and believe me I've heard all the arguments both ways, and I'm not here to change anyone's opinions. Religion isn't necessarily about blind devotion to God, although I do rely on Him, but the first thing I noticed that rainy Sunday afternoon about a month or so back was how everyone would come together regardless of anything else. I was invited by a person I really never associated with at school, and there were several people that I had never considered to be my friends, but they all knew who I was and were greeting me with open arms. That's what it's about, it's about boundaries such as race, social status, and other irrelevant differences disappearing as people are united by their faith in God. While I do not agree with many of the people in my congregation on some issues that we discuss every Friday night, just the sight of people singing and dancing together warms the heart and touches the soul, and it is at that moment that I knew He had touched me. This may sound overly corny, but it's just the way it's happened. And you know, since I began to rely on Him, things have gone surprisingly well. My submission to the military was accepted, I joined a volunteer organization and quickly made my way through the ranks and am now only second to the President, and my grades have begun to climb. All this happened because I worship and praise Him, because I take fifteen minutes out of my day every day to pray, because I've accepted Him.

I don't expect to change anyone's opinions, but I thought I'd at least share my perspective on the whole religion vs athiesm issue.

 

[Eastern Knight]

 

[bobgote]

I see my church as a large family. while i may not like everyone there D) I know that whatever happens to me, I have a safety net behind me to back me up. Faith itself is a personal thing, but there is a big social element of the church, where you can sometimes see the real morals at work behind christianity.

However you can also see people completely forget morals and be the *****y backstabbers that seem to be around more in churches than out of them. Middle-aged women with nothing better to do than wrangle for social status in the church, middle aged men eyeing off the female parishioners. It is a good place to see not only the occasional emergence of true goodness of man, but also the inherent evil. I guess I'm a bit jaded. This is my perspective of church.

 

[Plexus]

Very well put.

 

[Stapel]

It is a simple fact that when people feel good, their results will go up.

Feeling good can be acheived in several ways. One of them is devotion to a higher being that is actually not there. It's a very popular way!

My two grants .

 

[carlosMM]

I agree, stapel, and as long as they do it for themselves and do not try to force me to follow it is perfectly fine by me!

 

[FredLC]

I feel good by hanging out in CivFanatics. Should I worship Thunderfall?

Please note that I am not trolling, I'm simply pointing out that hanging out in a group, feeling as part of something, creates a well being, and that feeling you have is the same for any group, not only those intrinsically linked to religion.

God is incidental, i'm afraid.

Regards .

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by LesCanadiens
...you know, since I began to rely on Him, things have gone surprisingly well. My submission to the military was accepted, I joined a volunteer organization and quickly made my way through the ranks and am now only second to the President, and my grades have begun to climb. All this happened because I worship and praise Him...

I'm happy that you've found your faith and its rewards, and I try to respect anyone's personal spirituality. (I'm also a member of the military, a keen volunteer in environmental work, and a student!) But I have to ask: would the average churchgoer's faith remain unshaken if everything started going wrong? It is, you must admit, easy to remain devoted to a person or idea if we feel we're getting something good in return. What if your life suddenly fell apart, as in the Book of Job?

 

[Aphex_Twin]

God is an artifice, but still a necessary one.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Nice post Les, I also rely on god when the doot hits the fan. But I suspect the positive feelings youve gotten from becoming part of a group of nice people has had the most impact, and not the 15 minutes of prayer. Having said that, maybe those 15 minutes of prayer put you in a positive mode and so positive things flow to you during the course of the day. Being positive brings positive things into our lives. Hmmm, Id try praying 15 minutes a day but I always feel like a jerk when Im praying. I feel like Im 10 years old again and Im squirming in front of the school principal as he glares at me while I try to stutter out an explanation for something naughty I did. I think in my case, starting out the day feeling like a jerk would do more harm than good.

 

[funxus]

It's easier for me to accept religion now than probably a year ago (thanks CFC) so I agree everybody are entitled to their own way and views. My view though is that life goes up and down, sometimes you do well, and sometimes you don't, and I'd say it's all based on my actions and luck, while other's think someone else has a hand in it.

 

[Pariah]

Thinking "someone else has a hand in it" is a 2-edged sword: it can be a comfort to those in need, to think it's not all really their fault, or it can be a way of avoid feeling responsible for one's own mistakes, meaning that one's behaviour may not change.

 

[cgannon64]

Now just make sure you remember that, in Church, God is first and status is second. Don't become like those people who go to church to see who isn't going.

 

[floppa21]

As FredLC said, GOD is incidental. The same feeling of community and well being could have been found if you had joined a sports team or a social club.

Don't confuse community with God.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Might I point out that the reason you have done so well in this organization and have increasingly good grades may be because you have devoted so much time to this, rather than there being any spiritual reason.

Not to go praising capitalism or anything but when you spend alot of time working for something then you do tend to do better in it. I got good grades at school and I deny the existence of God, the reason I did well was because I choose subjects I was good at and spent time studying. By your logic I should have failed because I am an evil unbeliver.

 

[Smidlee]

Originally posted by Pariah


I'm happy that you've found your faith and its rewards, and I try to respect anyone's personal spirituality. (I'm also a member of the military, a keen volunteer in environmental work, and a student!) But I have to ask: would the average churchgoer's faith remain unshaken if everything started going wrong? It is, you must admit, easy to remain devoted to a person or idea if we feel we're getting something good in return. What if your life suddenly fell apart, as in the Book of Job?

good point. it's the trials in life that proves your faith is real or not. Job knew God on a very personally level so when everything in life was taken from him he could still praise God. cause Job trusted God he could say " though he slay me, yet will I trust in Him..."Job 13:15
there are two kinds of believers in church :
1) true believers who knows God personally
2) make-believers who pretends to be something they are not .
so when the going gets rough the make-believer will leave their faith and the church while trials will make a true believer stronger. Job 23:10 " But he knoweth the way that I take; when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold ." (I love the book of Job)

 

[Smidlee]

Originally posted by ComradeDavo
By your logic I should have failed because I am an evil unbeliver.

not really . Matthew 5:45 " ... for He (God) maketh his sun to rise on the evil and good , and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust ." but of course rain falls on the just more because the unjust have just stolen the justs' umbrella .

 

[floppa21]

smidlee, you forgot the 3rd type of believer

The 3rd type of believer is the one who claims to be a believer and goes through the motions. This is the most common type of believer out there.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Originally posted by Smidlee

not really . Matthew 5:45 " ... for He (God) maketh his sun to rise on the evil and good , and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust ." but of course rain falls on the just more because the unjust have just stolen the justs' umbrella .

I don't know what the **** you are on about!

I guess thats the old christian trick of 'lets confuse the hell out of everyone so they nod and go ''mmmmm'' '.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by floppa21
The 3rd type of believer is the one who claims to be a believer and goes through the motions. This is the most common type of believer out there.

This is indisputably true. Even Bibilical, since the way is said to be narrow, and elsewhere Jesus says that many will callhim Lord, but that he will respond "I never knew you." I seem to be missing a point though.

Originally posted by floppa21
As FredLC said, GOD is incidental. The same feeling of community and well being could have been found if you had joined a sports team or a social club.

Don't confuse community with God.

This is a good point, to a point. Every community has a center, around which everything revolves and from which everything effected. True you may find many of the benefits of a close church fellowship in a group of football fans at the local drinking establishement, what you will not find is the impact of the word and the spirit.

As Bobgote says, religious people can be just as selfcentered and petty as non church going people, indeed criminally so. This should not be surprising. When Jesus had his ministry, his opponents were the Pharisees and Sadducees, who represented the extremes of formal Jewish though of the day: strictly formal to near secular. There are a couple of things to remember.

Man is not perfectable, but he his redeemable. It is not possible to keep someone, anyone, from causing offense. It IS possible to make ammends and to seek and receive forgiveness. Second, although it is cliche, a hypocrit between you and God is necessarily closer to God than you are. Real faith is undisturbed by hypocracy, except in the sense that any sin disturbs. Faith is shared and upheld in the community, and we are hardwired to need it, but it is direct and personal contact with God that is the origin of faith.

J