Chronicles [modmod]

AdamMorva

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Hello, I like your additions, but:

My inept government's expansion is making ME unhappy

So, I'm playing a new game the other day, and I notice that all my cities are VEEEEERY unhappy.

Turns out that my 5 city empire on a huge map generates -9 happiness...

Ummmm.
This makes all the cities (except for the capital with the no unhappiness in capital civic) completely, 100% useless.

I figured it might expire in a few turns... right?

No. 200 turns later the unhappiness from new cities is the same. And it completely kills the game.

Please fix this bug, thank you!

Kind Regards,
Adam
 

<Nexus>

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Umm...
Are you talking about certain civics?
Or...
I think you are talking about a core feature of AND2 where the more cities you get and the further they are away from the capital the more unhappiness piles up.
The devs decided to hinder early expansion a bit.
This penalty is decreasing in the newer and newer eras. A 5 cities empire is big in the ancient era but not in the modern.
 

Me_Myself

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Trying Chronicles, I like many additions, including "Penal Economy" being present - in 20th century it was and might be in future a big thing in planned economies. And it's even somewhat present in modern Russia, a remnant of Stalin's opression system.
Got a question.
I see M.A.D doctrine needing Future Tech to be adopted. And it's said to be needed to "set targets for nuclear warheads".
Does it mean that in game there will be no nuclear wars before Future Tech?
 
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Me_Myself

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Also got a suggestion for the Monastery buildings in game. I understand the science bonus of monasteries becoming obsolete. But not being unable to build them after researching computers. Because new monasteries are being built right now IRL. Not as many as new churches of course.
 
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<Nexus>

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I see M.A.D doctrine needing Future Tech to be adopted. And it's said to be needed to "set targets for nuclear warheads".
Does it mean that in game there will be no nuclear wars before Future Tech?
Not at all! It's a "dummy solution". You need to build First Nuclear Test National Wonder which gives access to all Stance civics (same thing as Shwedagon Paya with Religion civics). M.A.D. is the last civic in it's category, so this is the way I have solved that you cannot choose M.A.D. without having any nukes.
But I will change this to something more simple and straightforward.

Also got a suggestion for the Monastery buildings in game. I understand the science bonus of monasteries becoming obsolete. But not being unable to build them after researching computers. Because new monasteries are being built right now IRL. Not as many as new churches of course.
But they no longer have any meaningful impact on society. And I don't know how they could be still useful inn the game. But I'm open to all suggestions :)
 

Me_Myself

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Cool stuff about nukes.

About monasteries: in game effect - all same effects except science production.
So with humanism they get -1 science and with computers -1 again, so it's 0.

Btw about all late game stuff - would be great to have Earth scenarious for ROM AND, on huge map, for example. For different late game starts like 1500 or 1900 year.
 

<Nexus>

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About monasteries: in game effect - all same effects except science production.
So with humanism they get -1 science and with computers -1 again, so it's 0.
Will look into it...

Btw about all late game stuff - would be great to have Earth scenarious for ROM AND, on huge map, for example. For different late game starts like 1500 or 1900 year.
I'm not making scenarios, have no time for them, sorry.
 

Me_Myself

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Fair, I suppose.
I tried playing AND and it's vanilla thing happening again - I dominate early with hall of tara and slavemarkets + going wide, so my gold is like 7 times that of AI. And then I abandon the game xD
Scenarious could solve that issue.
 

jtanner28

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Hi Zeta Nexus! I am a returning player/modder with a long-time interest in all things related to Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn. Your modmod looks fantastic but appears to be out of date with the current version of ROM:AND, version 1082. Any thoughts on when it might be updated? Is there anything I can do to help out? I have started the process of updating it already, but didn't want to step on your toes.

Edit: It's possible it may already be updated and I simply installed it incorrectly. I can't use the installer because I am on Linux. I have been manually extracting the files where they should go and modifying the modular loading file to load it. I might have messed it up. :lol:
 
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<Nexus>

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Hi Zeta Nexus! I am a returning player/modder with a long-time interest in all things related to Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn.
Welcome back! :wavey:
I noticed it long ago that you were one of the founding fathers of ROM/AND.
Your modmod looks fantastic
Oh, I'm pleased to hear that. :love:
but appears to be out of date with the current version of ROM:AND, version 1082.
Did you apply the patch? I think it should be at least playable with that.
Any thoughts on when it might be updated?
I am planning a BIIIIIG update sometime in the next weeks but that will be no longer a modular modmod but a standalone version. Modularity is great but I find it too limiting. Will write a little about it in a following post...
Is there anything I can do to help out? I have started the process of updating it already, but didn't want to step on your toes.
:lol: Thank you very much. Until I come out with the version there is not much you could do but after that I will count on you. ;)
 

<Nexus>

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So... What to expect in the next version of Chronicles?

Completely reworked civic system
It will act sort of like a tree, the higher categories limiting the lower ones:
  • Government (Anarchy, Autocracy, Oligarchy and Democracy)
    • State (Chiefdom, City-State, Monarchy, Empire, Republic, Colonial and Federation)
      • Rule (Patriarchy, Despotism, Theocracy, Warlords, etc)
        • Society
        • Labor
        • Economy
        • Military
        • Religion
        • Welfare
        • Media
        • Foreign Policy
        • Immigration
        • Stance
Of course there are some other incompatibilities (like Liberal vs Intolerant, Theocracy vs Atheist, etc).
The main idea is, that that your government choice limits your other choices.
Civics are designed to "do a certain thing". I have cut some that I found unnecessary. I think it is a very bad idea to overcrowd any category with choices.

You will also see new, beautiful round civic buttons (mostly from Civ5) that are easy to recognize in the tech tree too.
Civ4ScreenShot0303.JPG

Hunting
...greatly expanded by adding many animals from C2C (but not all!).
A new Hunter unit replacing Scout (all recon units are pushed later in the tech tree).
A new Great Hunter great person that you can gain by hunting animals.

Myths
Now they work more like religions. You no longer build Myths but they appear in the fitting areas when requirements are met. There are also new Myths (Dessert and Winter). They also provide special bonuses.

Traits
I tried to balance Traits and make all of them interesting. Now each Trait will have it's own building (or unit).

And lot of other, smaller tweaks.
I'm still polishing it a bit but hope to upload it in February :)
 
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<Nexus>

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Hi Zeta Nexus! I am a returning player/modder with a long-time interest in all things related to Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn. Your modmod looks fantastic but appears to be out of date with the current version of ROM:AND, version 1082. Any thoughts on when it might be updated? Is there anything I can do to help out? I have started the process of updating it already, but didn't want to step on your toes.
After a second thought: If you feel like making an update patch for it, than you are free to do so. :)
Just don't forget to make a change log so I can see if you have added something cool that I would like to assimilate :assimilate:
 

jtanner28

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After a second thought: If you feel like making an update patch for it, than you are free to do so. :)
Just don't forget to make a change log so I can see if you have added something cool that I would like to assimilate :assimilate:

Actually, it turns out that everything works fine on rev 1082. The problem I was having stems from the fact that I am playing the game on Linux. When I installed Chronicles and the most current patch I forgot that Linux strictly enforces file and directory name capitalization. Several of the folder names in Chronicles differ from ROM:AND in this respect (art vs Art, xml vs XML, etc). There is even a difference between the folder names in Chronicles itself and its own patch. :lol: Consequently, many XML and python files were not overwriting their counterparts where they should have.

This isn't an issue at all for Windows. Nevertheless, it's good to know for future reference. The only thing I had do do to get the modmod running was change the folder names to exactly match up, re-apply everything and it runs perfectly.

I am looking forward to the next version of Chronicles. I like the direction of thinking about the limits on civics. I am curious though: why standalone? What are the limits on modularity that you referenced earlier? Are you planning on SDK changes also?
 

JosEPh_II

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Actually, it turns out that everything works fine on rev 1082. The problem I was having stems from the fact that I am playing the game on Linux. When I installed Chronicles and the most current patch I forgot that Linux strictly enforces file and directory name capitalization. Several of the folder names in Chronicles differ from ROM:AND in this respect (art vs Art, xml vs XML, etc). There is even a difference between the folder names in Chronicles itself and its own patch. :lol: Consequently, many XML and python files were not overwriting their counterparts where they should have.

This isn't an issue at all for Windows. Nevertheless, it's good to know for future reference. The only thing I had do do to get the modmod running was change the folder names to exactly match up, re-apply everything and it runs perfectly.

I am looking forward to the next version of Chronicles. I like the direction of thinking about the limits on civics. I am curious though: why standalone? What are the limits on modularity that you referenced earlier? Are you planning on SDK changes also?
Hello jtanner28! A very long time since I last saw you post. I don't know if you remember me. But for a brief time you created and then isabelaxxx and I were working on a project called Krome. I still have Krome 0.85. And there is still an SVN file for it. Would love to talk with you about it.

Good to see you past again. :)
 

<Nexus>

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Actually, it turns out that everything works fine on rev 1082. The problem I was having stems from the fact that I am playing the game on Linux. When I installed Chronicles and the most current patch I forgot that Linux strictly enforces file and directory name capitalization. Several of the folder names in Chronicles differ from ROM:AND in this respect (art vs Art, xml vs XML, etc). There is even a difference between the folder names in Chronicles itself and its own patch. :lol: Consequently, many XML and python files were not overwriting their counterparts where they should have.
Ooooo... I didn't know of that. Will try to be careful about it. THX for spotting it.

I am curious though: why standalone? What are the limits on modularity that you referenced earlier? Are you planning on SDK changes also?
I really don't want SDK changes but want to have the same DLL as AND2 so debugging is much easier.
I have a few - very small - python changes and maybe will have some more. And you know that python is not really modular.
Even XML isn't always modular:
  • I have cut some civics, buildings, etc from the mod but with a module you cannot erase them only mask them to look like something else. That's a major pain in the back :sad:
  • Civics cannot be rearranged with a modul. Their order of listing is also troublesome.
  • There are some other thing that can't even be overwritten with a module.
Updating is also a problem. If the main mod is updated than it can be very conflicting with a module. But if I release a standalone modmod than I have control over the updating.

So it's cleaner this way and I always try to do quality work (IRL too). And AND2 has set the bar very high :)
 

<Nexus>

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continuing from here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/general-a-new-dawn-discussion.523465/page-136#post-15385128

Thank you. I appreciate this. I think to increase animal quantity on the map, value in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml in the following string should be greatly decreased, at least to the same number as for barbarians.
<iUnownedTilesPerGameAnimal>30</iUnownedTilesPerGameAnimal>
Now that you mention it... I think I should increase it. In my play test (Giant/Epic) there weren't so many animals to hunt.

Also dedicated promotion Hunter1, 2, 3 could be created and assigned to new Hunter unit. Then this promotion should be defined in CIV4OutcomeInfos.xml with subdue probabilities say 50, 70 and 90%.
I have that too. Subdue chances are approximately:
10% for no promotion, 25% for H1, 50% for H2 and 75% H3
There is also a chance to creat a Great Hunter. This chance is also modified by Hunter promotions and also depends on the strength of the animal (a stronger animal has a bigger chance).
 

Alpaya

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But they no longer have any meaningful impact on society. And I don't know how they could be still useful inn the game. But I'm open to all suggestions :)
I wouldn't say that monastery does not have impact to society. Prayers are always powerful, were, are and will. And these guys in monasteries dedicated theirselves to pray for people and whole world, so even it is not so obvious impact still exist. Also some monasteries are nice looking hisrorical heritage. In game it could be represented as +1 happy and +10% additional culture in contemporary adges.
 

<Nexus>

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I'm not doing that.

OTOH I was thinking of a better upgrade for Monasteries instead of School.
Caritas would be a valid solution, where the church takes greater part of social welfare. The only problem is, that Caritas is Catholic only. If we could come up with a good name for every in-game religion I would be happy to add them.
 

Slarki

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But they no longer have any meaningful impact on society. And I don't know how they could be still useful inn the game. But I'm open to all suggestions :)

As old religious centers they carry some, albeit small weight. Several also have economic buildings connected. You are right that they lost their importance. Craftsmanship, schools and even specialized charity facilities took over their traditional work. But although the community is the core part of the monastery, the individual choice (at least in the christian tradition) always played a key role. So you can think of it as a sort of tourism for those who choose a thoughtful life while helping others (again in the christian tradition). In selected asian monasteries they are still important for religious practices. In game, I believe for regular gameplay that are too small for a need to be recognized. Some religious civics could enable building them for a small culture and stability (revolutions) boost.
 
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