Church, Relgion & People My testimony of the Evill of the corporate church

[GenMarshall]

This is entirely OT but CivGeneral you do need to look into the practices that gave the Catholic Church such wealth. They are immoral and sometimes downright hateful.

A few examples.

Confiscation of Jewish lands and properties and other religous "heretical" groups.

War chests from religous wars instigated by the church against so called anti christs.

Indulgences where rich people could buy forgiveness without obligation. Essentially you payed hundreds soemtimes thousands( depends how much you had sinned) in "gold" thaller, Florins, whatever you want to call it, and were forgiven for all past indiscretions.

Nobles recieved many incentives to give over money, political favour and consideration was often a major part not just religous consideration.

Holding works of art confiscated from others during the second world war, by others I mean Jews, communists and other people considered apostate.

I could go on but I sugest you read your history before you make claims about the wealth of the Catholic faith, some of it was obtained by immoral acts.

Now I wont chastise a faith based solely on history, but it does beg the question, can the Catholic churches money be held up to such close scrutiny?

Religions need money to survive, quite how much is the subject of much historical debate.

As I said in the atheist & agnostic thread and from the lead character from Gone With the Wind. "Frankly (Sorry, I am not calling you "my dear" since youre not a woman ), I dont give a damn" I dont realy give a care where the Catholic Church has gotten it's money in the past. I was not around back then and does not pretain to me. Its not my job nor my buissness to put my Church to such scrutiny.

Pope John Paul II has already made apologies to the Church's wrong doings in it's history from the abuse of indulgences to the crusades. I am not going to be Judgemental on my Church after the late pontiff gave the apologies on behaff of the Catholic Church. What has happened has happened in the past and has been forgiven. The Catholic Church (and I bet Pope John Paul II would also say) does not wish to be the slave to the past of it's wrong doings and should insted focus on the present and the future.

 

[Sidhe]

I agree the church of the past should not be held to account for the wealth of the present particularly when it seeks to make ammends, you do need to have an understanding of where it came from to make points on it's value though, it seemed to me you were equating its wealth with good and noble charity which of course was part of it, but the morasse of power and wealth mongering also need to be taken into account, the church is not without sin, I just saw your posts as devoid of substance because you were talking about only a minority of it's wealth acquistion.

I Needed to build a greenhouse before someone casts the first stone. Mixing my metaphores but those in glass houses...

 

[Smidlee]

First the church is made up of different people who is there for different reasons. If Jesus one of the twelve disciples was in it for the money (Judus) then it should be no surprised there is still those who make merchandise out of the church. This was the whole point for Jesus overturning the tables in the temple.

Second when it comes to how much American spend on drinking, gambling, porns,movies,and about every other self-centered activity then what they give to the church is peanuts.

Churches are people , there's givers and then there's takers. Which one are you? giver or taker?

 

[blackheart]

Churches are people , there's givers and then there's takers. Which one are you? giver or taker?

Pray tell, what exactly can you take from a church that would cost money? (short of stealing).

Not half as funny as when the atheists interpret the Bible and tell christians how to act.

Yea I do find that ironically hilarious. Maybe some of these churches should take lessons from an atheist such as Curt . Someone should sig what he said though.

 

[The Yankee]

I see. Well not every place is the same. Well I guess those schools you are talking about are not part of some coporate level business like the ones in the Philippines. Well I can only speak of my own experiences.

No ill will.

None taken! Just have to account for huge differences when considering all the churches and people involved.

Perhaps a corporate structure of some kind would be beneficial in streamlining the fundraising process.

 

[MobBoss]

Pray tell, what exactly can you take from a church that would cost money? (short of stealing).

Well, for starters, counseling and therapy that you can get from a Pastor or such for free, usually retails on the open market at about 80 bucks an hour if not way more.

A lot of churchs, at least the ones I have been to, often have food banks that people can freely take food home with them from. My current church has a huge table stacked with donated bread on it every Sunday...folks are encouraged to take what they want from it on the way out the door after service.

My family has also been given a huge amount of clothing, beds (frames and mattress, some very nice and definitely not junk), sofas, loveseats, TVs, pictures, books, bicycles, etc. etc. Sometimes this is totally unexpected, sometimes not. Once a year, our church also has a combined yard sale that opens up to church members a couple of days before the general public. If you see something you want, just take it no question asked. Otherwise all proceeds go to the church.

So most definitely, the things you can receive from a church can be quite significant in value.

 

[CurtSibling]

You might be surprised but some Christians believe that commercialism has become to deeply rooted in many mainstream Churches. I am one of them.

I am not surprised.

You fling away any teachings of christ that inconvenience you.

.

 

[CurtSibling]

No. Eight different versions all agree on "the love of money is the root of all evil", and I'm not cherry-picking it either.

And you deny that all christians are free from the desire and worship of cash?

I dare you to say it!

I dares ya!

Not half as funny as when the atheists interpret the Bible and tell christians how to act.

Your little holy book is not your sole monopoly...!

We can read it too - And make opinions anytime about any of it.

Christians must act in whatever way society dictates...Like the rest of us.

Nice to have you back, Curt.

Likewise, Erik, old bean!

 

[classical_hero]

I am not surprised.

You fling away any teachings of christ that inconvenience you.

.

I really do not know why I am doing this but I am.

It is time for you to put up or shut up. Show me how I have been preaching that we should live to make more money for Jesus. Show me how I am part of this crap, and then you may continue with this, because you have not changed one bit in the face of evidence. You keep spouting the same things in spite of this, so now give your evidence ro shut up.

 

[Smidlee]

Pray tell, what exactly can you take from a church that would cost money? (short of stealing).

First the building so members don't get rained on plus won't be biten by bugs in the summer months nor freeze to death in the winter, (also building are easier to lock up so theives doesn't steal the churches equipment), power bill (power companies do charge churches for power so members can enjoy AC and lights, etc. If the church didn't pay the power bill then it would be stealing) , support teen homes (for unwanted teens), support missionaries, support young activities, start and help build schools, help those who in need, support the pastor as most church members want the pastor to be availible 24 hours a day to visit them and their loves one in a time of need (visit them in the hospital for example),etc.

P.S As a coach is to a football team so is a pastor to a church . He encourages those in the church to continue to be kind, thankful, to do what's right, to care about others, pray, give, stay close to God, etc. If you want to called it brainwashing then go ahead but the fact is a coach can make the difference between a losing football team to Super Bowl champions. Same with the pastor , of course it still comes down to the players/members do most of the work.