Churches close amidst declining attendence

danjuno

Can the circle be unbroken?
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Churches fight to stay open as attendance dwindles

During the final Mass at the All Saints Parish in Buffalo, New York, on a warm Sunday in July, the priests encouraged the few parishioners who came to take comfort in holy scripture.

"For everything, there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven," the passage read.

On Earth, many parishes are accepting that it's time to sell their properties. As the person leading renewal and development for the Diocese of Buffalo, Father Bryan Zielenieski is one of many religious leaders across America who have closed houses of worship in recent years.

"We essentially went to half of what we used to back in the early 2000s," he told ABC News. "We lost about 100 parishes."

Zielenieski expects he'll need to shut down another 70 churches in what the Diocese is calling its "road to renewal." It's a very biblical name for the challenge facing churches: People just aren't going as much as they used to.


On average, more than half of the diocese's churches today are baptizing fewer than one person a month, and 59% of them are spending more than they take in, Zielenieski noted.

In the late 1940s, nearly 80% of Americans said they belonged to a church, synagogue, mosque or temple, according to Gallup. Today, just 45% say the same, the analytics company noted, and only 32% say that they worship God in a house of prayer once a week.

tl;dr, Church attendance in the US is down and churches are closing and getting turned into businesses or condos/apartments. Catholic Church in particular getting hammered over priest molestation scandals.
 
As society becomes more secular, this will happen. Have they considered that once a week might not be enough to pay for the utilities? I've known people who attend services 3-4 times/week here. Mind you, that's Anglican, and it seems excessive to me, but at least these churches aren't being sold. They also rent their facilities out to other people and community groups (our local SCA has held a lot of feasts in Anglican church basements).
 
Catholic Church in particular getting hammered over priest molestation scandals.
I think the most ironic thing about this is people will still rush to defend or otherwise play down the sheer, evidenced amount of times this has happened.
 
Yeah christianity just hasn't been a broad social and community force for a few decades now.

There's individual outliers, mostly in eastern denominations associated with middle eastern migration, where there's still strong broad community roles for the institution of the church. You've still got Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Catholic, and Syriac etc churches that are fully universal social hubs for their specific community members, but not too much else.

But generally in the west it's now mostly retreated from a general overarching social presence and a place of community, into being the locus of specific right wing ideologies. With this retreat and narrowing, institutional christianity cannot speak to the population at large, it no longer forms a shared values language.

It's obviously not historically unusual for christianity to get involved with worldly politics and pick sides... I mean that's how it started. But today it seems to be occurring as a substitute for lost vital social binds, rather than an application of that social centrality like in previous centuries.

It's definitely not accidental that the most successful protestant denominations these days, the various pentecostal mega churches, your Hillsongs and the like, treat their religion more like a consumer good than a binding social force.

You'd think the Catholic church would be a bit more resilient to this process given its size and institutional roles in health and education, but the church siding with perpetrators in their child sexual abuse crisis would seem to be decisive there.
 
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There's no reason to go if there's no one to go with. My grandparents were from Northeast PA. Coal region; strong Polish and Irish backgrounds. I swear a church just about on every block in the Wyoming Valley there. Close neighbors all attended. You're not getting that in America any more, at least. Socializing is found elsewhere. I think that has more to do with it than some loss of faith (which could be more of a symptom than a cause).

Though I realize there's some "mega" churches in the South which will probably remain active for many years to come.
 
Socializing is found elsewhere. I think that has more to do with it than some loss of faith (which could be more of a symptom than a cause).
Disagree partially. You are correct there's nobody to go with, disagree socializing is found elsewhere.

The collapse of church as a mechanism of social introduction and maintenance has not been replaced. There is no similarly sized regular gathering of locals, which was perhaps more valuable than faith itself(to me, from a social health perspective, even as an atheist, this loss of community has been a blow).
 
I can't imagine why anyone would goto church if not forced to.

The organ music can be pretty to listen to.

And I suppose people like the socializing afterwards but being around a bunch of people with shared delusions in a world in desperate need to clear headed action/solutions isn't pushing people's buttons anymore. Kind of like people are going to bars/drinking less, seeking comfort in hazy ignorance is really no comfort at all.
 
The organ music can be pretty to listen to.

Organs are good for more than just hymns. I enjoyed reading the Dragonlance Chronicles novels much more after I learned how to play the songs some of the characters sing in them (the sheet music is included in the gaming modules and I transcribed it from piano to organ).
 
Google maps brings up 13 churches in my town of 4500. Town i grew up in has 2 churches for 750 people. Of course both has more churches out in the countryside (amish and non-amish), but i dont count them as most who go to them arent counted in the city/village population either.

Several of them (in town) are really small, dont look like a church like they belong in a strip mall (small building, no parking lot or the parking lot would only hold like 6 cars), so it wouldnt be surprising if those vanished.

Some churches in the area removed their steeples to cut costs (cheaper to remove it than annual inspections and maintanence). I think it happened around covid, but may have started earlier.

I noticed some local churches stream their sunday services (these are definitely NOT 'mega churches'). Well, thats fine, gives people who cant make it be able to still get their weekly sermon if they need it (i dont). But i do wonder if that actually helps or hurts them. Watching the service from home, there is no donation/collection plate.
 
I'm sure they got a virtual one.

From a quick search, as I know some folks do this:
About one in five Christians in the United States tithe, meaning they donate 10% or more of their income
I've known a coupla folks who do this - literally have it come right outta there paychecks
 
I'm sure they got a virtual one.
Well, i was thinking one could watch their youtube feed for free. The mega churches would be spamming how to donate online, or have a toll free number to call, such as a banner running across the bottom of the screen. The smaller churches arent as tech savy.

But, i do see if one makes the effort, one can figure out how to donate online to these smaller churches also. Even they might have their own website, or a facebook account, where they can instruct or direct you how to do so.
 
Google maps brings up 13 churches in my town of 4500. Town i grew up in has 2 churches for 750 people. Of course both has more churches out in the countryside (amish and non-amish), but i dont count them as most who go to them arent counted in the city/village population either.

Several of them (in town) are really small, dont look like a church like they belong in a strip mall (small building, no parking lot or the parking lot would only hold like 6 cars), so it wouldnt be surprising if those vanished.

Some churches in the area removed their steeples to cut costs (cheaper to remove it than annual inspections and maintanence). I think it happened around covid, but may have started earlier.

I noticed some local churches stream their sunday services (these are definitely NOT 'mega churches'). Well, thats fine, gives people who cant make it be able to still get their weekly sermon if they need it (i dont). But i do wonder if that actually helps or hurts them. Watching the service from home, there is no donation/collection plate.
There are apps for tithing. The pastor still visits the people that stream in when they get sick. Or just to visit them. They're often pretty lonely.

Fraternal orders like the Lions are dwindling, too. People just can't be assed to participate or help regardless of what it is. It's not secular rot, it's just rot.
 
There are apps for tithing. The pastor still visits the people that stream in when they get sick. Or just to visit them. They're often pretty lonely.

Fraternal orders like the Lions are dwindling, too. People just can't be assed to participate or help regardless of what it is. It's not secular rot, it's just rot.
Many of the old clubs, orders, groups of social interaction, and institutions, including churches, are fading away as their supporting populations age and die. They all have their roots in cultural themes that have no longer have modern relevance among the later generations. New generations find "better for them" ways of interacting and socializing. Replacement cultural way of doing things are abundant, even if very different and perhaps less effective in their effects.
 
I don't think they have. I think they're significantly less social, more conservative, and isolated. The ties that bind are not inborn. They must be built and they must be maintained.

It's rot.
 
I don't think they have. I think they're significantly less social, more conservative, and isolated.

It's rot.
Are their numbers declining? What are the average agesof members? General societal rot or rot within those groups?
 
Disagree partially. You are correct there's nobody to go with, disagree socializing is found elsewhere.
In person socializing, yeah. Nowadays if you want to know what your neighbors are up to, you just follow them on facebook (also a reason for declines in desire to attend class reunions "i already know what they are doing, i dont need to go to the reunion to find out what they've been up to for the last 5 or 10 years or whatever, i already know".)


The pastor still visits the people that stream in when they get sick. Or just to visit them. They're often pretty lonely.
I was thinking of how many people stream it because they are hung over and dont want to get all dressed up in their Sunday best.

I can't imagine why anyone would goto church if not forced to.
In last 30 years, other than weddings and funerals, i havent been in a church except once or twice for holiday services to placate my parents.
 
I'm gaguing off ~10-24 year olds over the course of ~14 years. Watching greek participation, campus scene, and middle and high school student participation. It's across the board.
 
I'm gaguing off ~10-24 year olds over the course of ~14 years. Watching greek participation, campus scene, and middle and high school student participation. It's across the board.
What are you responding to? Is that the "rot" you are talking about?
 
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