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Cimeira Louca...

Discussion in 'Team Cavaleiros' started by RRRaskolnikov, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Hi everyone :),

    this thread will be the place to discuss the MM issues of our 4th city, Cimeira Louca.
    I will upload a spreadsheet of the city in the beggining of next week, updated versions will be find in the first post. Obviously, any member of the team is welcome to give input, new ideas, or simply correct what have already been done :).

    First let starts with a screenshot of the city at the current turn (I will also edit this link so we can see the actual city here):

    Spoiler :


    Tile list:

    City center on plain hill (2/2/1)
    5 floodplains, 1 shared with Sombra
    1 riverside grassland horse
    2 riverside grasslands
    one riverside grassland hill
    one riverside plain
    one riverside desert hill + iron
    two desert hills
    one plain hill
    one forested plain.

    The current state of the city:

    size: 2
    food bar: 23/24 at +3
    prod bar:
    -> chariot: 20/30 at +5 (from city center and horses)
    -> library: 8/90 (I need to look when those have been invested)
    Borders just popped -> 10/100 in culture at +1
    The cottage has been work for one turn (9 more needded for hamlet)

    I invit you to start discussing about strategies to maximize the output of this city... waiting me to do the damn spreadsheet :goodjob:

    Cheers,
    Raskolnikov
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Sombra switched to a science specialist for this one turn only, so Cimeira is borrowing one of Sombra's cottages.
     
  3. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    spreadsheet uploaded :)
     
  4. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Cimeira will finish its chariot next turn (see the screenshot)... what do we want to build there next?
    I am for another chariot seeing our troubles in this area, other alternatives include a barrack or finishing the lib (8 hammers stored on that build).

    Cheers
     
  5. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    I would like at least one more chariot in addition to those we have/are about to have, but Cimeira may not be the best place to build it.
     
  6. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    @Renata: It would take 6 turns (2 hammers of overflow next turn) to build another one.
     
  7. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    Right, that's the reason why. Ohlo can build them in two turns each. I think all in all I'd rather go back to the library. Even drop the horses tile for a while if we have a cottage to work instead; we can always finish it with the whip.
     
  8. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Hi :hatsoff:,

    the spreadsheet is updated, so is the screenshot :).
    We can 2 pop whip the library in turn 81 as the city reachs size 6 and unhappy status (see line 84 of the spreadsheet) with minimal overflow... sounds like a plan? (will edit the spreadsheet again after we reach a consensus on this)

    Cheers

    PS: some cases are filled in the spreadsheet after turn 81, don't mind them, these info are just for monitoring the growth of the various cottages.
    edit: I assumed Ilha will move west to cottage the floodplain near the iron mine...

    edit2: I realize I've forgotten to take into account the switch in HR and the new happy cap of 7 (assuming the chariot will leave the city)... so another possibility instead of setting up a 2 pop whip of the lib, size 6, is to grow size 7, working all the floodplains and the horses and start whipping workers/settlers (overflowing in the lib then other stuffs). Thoughts?
     
  9. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    OK I will update a new spreadsheet with the option of growing to size 7 on fp and then a settler whip scenario (will do it with a worker too if I find some more forces) later in the evening...that way people can give input with numbers knowledge :)
     
  10. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    Why is cimera working an unimproved floodplain and not the horses, it will grow in 2 turns anyways.
     
  11. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    @Oyzar: take a look at the current spreadsheet, it's filled untill turn 81 with the scenario of whipping the library for 2 pops at that time... I am not done with the two others versions I was planning, but I am really interested to have feed backs... as for the fp, I think it shaves a turn of growth but i have no time to check that now... If it appears not (as you said), just move back the citizen back to the horse tile and I will include it in the sheet.

    Cheers
     
  12. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    Even if it doesn't save time with this growth, maybe it does down the road?
     
  13. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Yeah it shaves a turn to grow to size 6 ;)
     
  14. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

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    By looking at the spreadsheet it looks like we can work the horse one more turn than is in the spreadsheet and still grow to size 6 on the same turn.
     
  15. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    You are right! I am working on a new version with the two more scenarios... wait one hour or two and we will discuss with new (and more accurate ) data :)

    Cheers
     
  16. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    OK screenshot and spreadsheet updated, the later until turn 90 with 2 new scenarios:

    library whip scenario: grow to size 6 and then whip the lib for 2 pop. Build a barrack and then a chariot.
    settler whip scenario: grow to size 7 and then whip a setter for 2 pop. Continue on the library until we are about to grow on unhappiness, switch to a worker.
    worker whip scenario: grow to size 7 and then whip a workerfor 2 pop. Continue on the library until we are about to grow on unhappiness, switch to a worker.

    All these scenarios are identical until turn 78, here are the differences in term of commerce and hammers from turn 78 to turn 90:

    library whip scenario: 166 commerce generated, from 16 hammers in the library to completion. barrack done, chariot done. 1 hammer of overflow.
    settler whip scenario: 180 commerce generated, from 16 hammers in the library to 53. 1 settler done, 48/60 hammers in a worker.
    worker whip scenario: 180 commerce generated, from 16 hammers in the library to 72. 1 worker done, 48/60 hammers in another one.

    I assumed for all this that only one worker is improving tiles around the city.
    There are many other scenarios, including those with putting the overflows from whips into MP warriors. This has the advantage of allowing further growth.

    So any opinion on these three scenarios is very welcome: propositions of other scenarios/ mistake report/comments...

    Cheers,
    Raskolnikov
     
  17. Renata

    Renata homicidal jungle cat GOTM Staff

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    If you assume you get the needed MPs from somewhere fast enough (so that you can complete the library rather than switching to worker), how fast can you get the library finished in your second and third cases?
     
  18. Earthling

    Earthling Chieftain

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    Spreadsheet stuff all looks solid - I'll give an opinion but first I'd rather ask a couple of things from a macro perspective:

    Do we actually think it's time for this settler? Would definitely cost us some in more maintenance, and which of the city sites will we be taking? IMO, if we're heading for the gems, it's not time yet - the city would be nothing until we get workers/farms up there (no food resource, no one to cut off in settling rush, and I don't think we really need the happy that bad). If our goal is expansion, worker before settler seems probably better.

    Also, why barracks and chariot? I guess this is due to a lot of people wanting more defense but I don't think that's as necessary. Especially if Ohlo goes for the Great Wall. I would go with either building warriors for MP, or putting the overflow into an aqueduct/courthouse or whatever opens up (as we'll be getting these techs in/traded for very soon).

    Personally I like whipping the library out of the options listed, but don't take my word on that too much. I'm not the best spreadsheet guy and my gut was telling me to grow with warriors anyway, minimal whipping. The city should have fairly solid production with the mined iron and the horse. But above all I'd rather have a decision that helps the empire as a whole than tries to maximize a handful more commerce/beakers; hope I'm not in the way of discussion.
     
  19. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    @Earthling: yeah I agree we definately need more workers right now. The barrack and the chariot in the first scenario were chosen to let the city grow. It can be anything but settler or worker in this case. I will test your suggestion of overflowing/building MP units after whiping the library, together with Renata idea. I am not sure we need an aqueduc there (HGs are planned in Serpente right?) though...
    But I am liking the third scenario better: it lets the city grow larger, and as you said we really need more workers (moreover if we go for the gems soon).

    @Renata: I will try to make another version of the third scenario tomorow: grow to size 7 -> 2 pop whip of worker -> finish library while growing (assuming Cimeira gets MP units from elsewhere).

    Cheers,
    Ras :)

    edit: We have until turn 78 (next turn) to decide on scenarios. Before that, the set up is the same (the current one, see screenshot) :)
     
  20. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    If you are bored, only read the bold sentence :)

    I hadn't time to work on the new scenarios for Cimeira, but we still have to decide what to work this turn. The general consensus seems to be for more workers. So we can set our mind on a worker whip. Then we need to decide at which size we want to do it. I had initialy planned on growing to size 7 (the happy cap) before doing it. It gives more commerce on the short term. But Oyzar reminds me that whipping at size 6 would gain some more food compared to the previous situation, so would probably give more commerce on the long run. So if we decide to whip Cimeira at size 6, we should work the horse now. This gives more hammers without delaying growth to size 6 (compared to the fp).

    Cheers
     

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