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# cities, &, avoiding war?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by berninicaco3, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. berninicaco3

    berninicaco3 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Hi!

    I'm new to the civilization franchise, civ5 is my first exposure and I've logged too many hours already!

    Just my personality, I'd *prefer* to win peacefully, hunkered down in my little piece of paradise.
    My one stint as Ghandi hoping for cultural victory, with just 4 cities, did NOT go well. I was rolled over.
    Do puppet city states count against # of cities unhappiness btw?

    Anyway.
    Inevitably, every game, no matter how friendly I try and be to cultivate relationships, no matter who those relationships are with, I get embroiled into a war. Some civs might, I suppose, be more irrational (*ahem* montezuma), or more militant, but even Siam will go from friend to foe in an instant, and then I'm forced to beat him down.
    Even if all I wanted to do was build farms and libraries!

    Soon after my war with that first backstabbing neighbor, every civ is calling me bloodthirsty, starting wars with me, and I find I've got a sprawling empire of their puppets and am on the warpath to domination victory whether I wanted it or not!

    And if I try and have mercy and make peace after taking them down a peg,
    40 turns later I'm regretting it when they try and fight me all over again! So I'm forced to grind them into extinction, not a city left. Hech, even Napolean in my current game, castrated very early on, decided to declare war on me when he had all of TWO CITIES still stuck in the dark ages! I don't get it! He was even friendly for a while!

    SO: I need some diplomatic advice.
    I also want to know, if total war is unavoidable, do you ever stop expanding at any point? Do you ever stop taking on puppets? Sometimes maintaining happiness gets difficult, and I start to raze cities instead of puppeting them: but of course, I lose those gold routes, whatever production they had, AND someone else starts spawning new cities on the ashes of the ones I just burnt down.
    Or so long as you've got the gold to buy colosseums and theatres, do you just go on building an empire to stretch across the largest map?

    I'm getting a little frustrated.


    thanks!
    -Bernard

    Oh, btw-- how do anti aircraft guns work, when aircraft are housed in cities? Are they only effective if a fighter or bomber tries to attack the antiaircraft unit itself?
     
  2. lilnev

    lilnev King

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    949
    Welcome to the forums!

    Puppets do count towards unhappiness. They do not count towards social policy (SP) costs.

    At some point, enough puppets will drag your happiness down to the point that you need to either raze some smaller puppets, annex them and buy the courthouse + happy buildings, or give them away to an AI. If you're going to end up razing a city, it's best to do it immediately on capture, so it doesn't raise you SP costs; if you later annex it to burn it, those costs go up.

    It's sometimes hard to keep peace with your immediate neighbor. They'll covet your land, settle right next to you then claim that you're too close, etc. I think it's best to: don't enter pacts of friendship. trade with everyone. keep a medium-sized army. if someone becomes widely denounced, go ahead and join in denouncing him. don't attack city states. If you do end up in a war with a neighbor, and you want play for peaceful victory, just fight off his units until he'll make peace, rather than going on the offensive. I think anyone who captures a lot of cities gets labeled "bloodthirsty", regardless of who started it.
     
  3. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
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    6,489
    It's pretty much impossible to avoid war with neighbors.

    You can stay friendly with ONE neighbor, if you sign a POF, give into all their demands and denounce all their enemies. Multiple POFs is a recipe for disaster.

    If it bothers you so much, play archipelago. :D
     
  4. chgrogers

    chgrogers Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
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    Location:
    Central US
    I think you got caught in the friendship trap? When you 1st started did you make friends with everyone? Friendship agreements are a double edged sword. The boost your diplo with the target nation but they with lower the diplo with any enemies of that nation. Your best bet is to only make 1-2 friendship agreements. that way you don't the cascade of denoucements. I think being denounced by your friend is the most damaging diplo act next to backstabbing your neighbor.

    Like lilnev said keep middle of the pack in military strength. Don't be the nation with the top score. Try to shoot for 3rd or 4th in the points within shooting range of a victory condition. Keep tabs on the leaders.
     
  5. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Even if you keep high number of soldiers? Or stay low in score?
     
  6. UrbanX

    UrbanX Absolute Monarch

    Joined:
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    one good way to avoid war would be map choice. so maybe archipelago or a small continents. pangea and similar maps always make for hostile relations.
     
  7. radiohodet

    radiohodet Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    It's easy to avoid wars, but you have to be careful with who you sign Declaration of Friendship with. Don't sign them at any price. Figure out the world diplomacy first.

    You don't need any soldiers as long as you aren't number 1 in the score table, which you shouldn't be with only a handful of cities.

    It's also pretty easy to win up to emperor with only four cities.

    Don't listen to the guys claiming you need to be on a archipelago map, or that it's impossible to play peacefully. They either hate the game at all cost, or don't understand how the diplo system works.
     
  8. Mr Jack

    Mr Jack Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
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    Asides from trying to manage diplomacy, make sure you maintain some defences. Also the Tradition SP branch includes a +33% bonus in your own lands and Himeji's Castle gives you another boost; these boosts can make your forces near unbeatable in your own lands and help you hold off aggressors.
     
  9. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    2 cannons, 2 muskets, and oligarchy and DoW everyone without worry
     
  10. vexing

    vexing knows

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    Dec 24, 2010
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    you can avoid war, you just have to avoid doing anything the AI dislikes, including but not limited to:
    declaring war,
    wiping out a civ or city state,
    signing a declaration of friendship,
    denouncing,
    expanding or being near their borders,
    building wonders,
    being ahead in score,
    lying.

    the degree of hatred each of these earn varies, and varies with the civs you're against, like completely wiping out a civ makes a lot of civs hate you instantly, or if you start near alexander he's going to declare war on you, and civs have leeway before they start to hate you, like most let you declare at least one war.

    there's a guide for an occ cultural victory in the articles section, that thread is a good read. you'll have an easier time getting a peaceful cultural victory with one city than four. you'll be bottom in score and most AI won't declare on you.
     
  11. ChuckVader

    ChuckVader Chieftain

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    I've been going for an OCC cultural victory in my last and current game, and so far have managed to avoid war. In my current game, Monty is my closest neighbor and was hostile for awhile, but later he mysteriously had a change of heart and became friendly.

    If you don't want war, don't sign Open Borders agreements if your military is weak. At least not with your neighbors. Once an AI MP sees how weak you are they'll often DoW.

    If an MP starts making menacing statements about how weak and puny you are, see if you can bribe another MP into declaring war on them.
     
  12. Calouste

    Calouste Deity

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    Indeed. I've had Cannon kill full strength Knights in one shot, although I probably had Hemji Castle in addition to Oligarchy. Although it doesn't matter massively if you kill them outright or only get them down to strength 2 or so if you're lacking Hemji.
     

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