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Citizens discussion...Minister of Culture.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by robboo, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    We seem to have a difficult time in filling this position almost every term.

    SO...I propose that we do away with it and combine the duties with other offices...namely the Minister of Interior and/or president. IF you disagree and think we shoud keep thw cultural office please post. Be aware that you will probably get appointed as Minister of Culture since the 72 hour call for appointments has passed I can assign any citizen to the job. Since no one applied then we must think its not an important position.

    I am open to suggestions of which duties should we move and to which office. In order to make this a lasting change we will need to write an amendment. Otherwise any changes made by the Tri will be undone at the end of this term(see CoL)
     
  2. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    1. goes to Cartographer/information department or something like that
    2. goes to president (or minister of science?)
    3. goes to president
    4. goes to Cartographer
    5. goes away?
     
  3. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    Questions to everyone....is item 1 necessary? It seems like a made up duty in order to have a position with something to do.

    I agree with the rest of your statements Dutch. I think the great peopel should be Minister of science since right now they will probably get used up in "lightbulb" mode.

    IF we werent a creative Civ then this position would be more crucial or if we were going for a cultural victory.

    Anyone wants to take a crack at writting the amendment or do you guys prefer a Tri degree for this term only.
     
  4. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    I suggest going ahead with a Tri decree in case one of the things the MoC is in control of actually happens this turn, and an amendment to make it permanent.
     
  5. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Chieftain

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    Well I think giving these powers up (especially great people) to another position kind of disturbes the equilibrium we have set. It will look rather unbalanced. I'm not sure if that will affect us much, but jsut a little insight.
     
  6. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    I would be wary of officially giving anything to the Cartographer as it is not an official post - and is only supposed to be working for the SoW. If there is no Cartographer, then the DP will have to post screenshots following the TC and any other culture related stuff will fall to whoever we give it to.

    I agree with Daveshack about the Tri decree - let's see how it pans out at first.
     
  7. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    OK..what if we just take the minister of culture jobs ( that matter ie number 2) adn give it to the Tri for now. That is teh only part of the cultural duties which really need to be worried about right now.

    (all of this doesnt matter if Strider wants the job.)
     
  8. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    I was MoC for 2 terms. Mostly just posting pictures, limited power since we don't have a religion. Otherwise the MoC stands pretty high on the chain of command. (Which doesn't matter anymore). I only could do 1 thing during those two terms and that was to have a cultural building built somewhere (even though I'm not sure it was entirely legal)
     
  9. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    I think we should just roll up the MoC with the MoI.
     
  10. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    OK I would have to check with MoI to see if he is willing to undertake these extra duties this term. And if it works out we can start on an amendment next term.
     
  11. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    I didn't mean for this term (although it can still happen). I meant for the ammendment.
     
  12. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    It doesnt matter now...Strider has decided to come on as Minister of culture.

    I guess we need to discuss the amendment now...Do we want to proceed.
     
  13. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    I feel it is a useless position and should be eliminated. Or at least dropped to the level of Cartographer, where it isn't an official position so it can be held by anyone.
     
  14. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    I dont know if its legal or not but are you interested in drafting the amendment if it was legal. I would but wading into the CoL makes my eyes bleed and I know anything I write up would have some parts declared invalid due to my oversights.
     
  15. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    I am part of the current Judiciary, so I refuse to write any ammendment at this time. I strongly urge someone else to attemt this change, however.
     
  16. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    Changes, removed, new


    B) The Executive Branch



    I. This branch consists of the Triumvirate and any and all elected and appointed Cabinet Officials and their deputies.
    IA. The Triumvirate will consist of the President, Secretary of State, and the Secretary of War.
    IB. The Cabinet Officials will be any office that is not included as part of the Triumvirate, the Judiciary, a Gubernatorial office or the Designated Player. The Cabinet currently consists of the Censor, Minister of Interior, Minster of Culture, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.

    II. The Powers and Duties of the Triumvirate.
    1. The Triumvirate may change Cabinet Offices in a manner prescribed in Section 1, Sub-Section B, Clause III.
    2. During a time of War the Triumvirate may decide that a state of mobilization is necessary for [our nation] and declare that a State of Mobilization exists.
    3. The Triumvirate appoints the Director of Intelligence.


    4. Any member of the Triumvirate may post an order to stop the game session if certain posted criteria posted by that member are met and such criteria fall under the scope of the member’s office.
    A. Any member of the Triumvirate may endorse a stop order posted by a member of the Cabinet, if such order is within the scope of Cabinet member’s office. A member of the Triumvirate must endorse a Cabinet member’s stop order for said order to be legal.​
    5. State of Mobilization
    A. A State of Mobilization can only be declared in a time of War.
    B. A State of Mobilization may not last more than 15 game turns. However, if Peace is declared and a State of War exists with no Civilization, the State of Mobilization ends immediately.
    C. A State of Mobilization may not be declared until at least 45 game turns have elapsed since the ending of the last Mobilization.


    D. A State of Mobilization may be ended prematurely by a 6/10 (60%) vote of the Governors Council after at least 7 game turns of Mobilization have passed.
    i. Should Mobilization be ended prematurely, it may be declared again in only 25 game turns.​
    E. Effects of Mobilization:
    i. The control of all workers goes the Triumvirate during this period, but the Minister of the Interior and the Governors retain control of a worker until a worker is specifically requested by the Triumvirate. The Triumvirate may not force a worker to quit an action assigned to it by the Minister of the Interior or a Governor, but must wait until that particular action has completed or is ended by the original authority.
    ii. The Triumvirate may change what is under construction in any city except for those that have begun a Citizen Assembly approved Wonder or have begun prebuild for approved Wonder. The Triumvirate may only order that military units or building may be built.
    iii. The Triumvirate may take up to one half of the prewar garrison of a city in to the regular army during a State of Mobilization.

    IIA. The Powers and Duties of the President
    1. During the Turnchat the President, or a Representative of the President, may order the ending of play if continuing requires a decision to be made that can only be made by the Citizens Assembly. If the Turns are being played offline the Designated Player must end play if he is forced to make a decision that can only be made by the Citizens Assembly, provided that no vote on said decision has concluded.
    2. The President will define a budget that all other official may not exceed without permission.


    3. The President may change the Tax slider no more than 10% every 10 turns, with these exceptions:
    A. The President may change taxes up to 30% in the event of budget shortfall: our nation losing money instead of gaining or staying even. However the President must see that a vote is brought on the matter before the next Game Session.
    B. The turn on which a technology is discovered the President may change taxes by as much as 50% but must see that a vote is brought on the matter before the next Game Session.

    4. The President is responsible for resolving disputes between officials.
    5. The President has all powers not expressly given to another official and not retained by the Citizens Assembly.


    6. The units the President controls:
    A. The President shall control all Settler and the defensive units assigned to them.
    B. The President shall control all naval units.
    C. The President shall control all missionaries.


    IIB. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of State
    1. The Secretary of State shall have control of the Foreign policy of our nation with the exception in the Declaration of War/Peace/Alliance and the trade of cities.
    A. The Secretary of State needs the permission of the Citizens Assembly: War/Peace/Alliance or the giving away of one of our Nation's cities.
    B. The Secretary of State has the power to accept a city.

    IIC. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of War
    1. The Secretary of War shall have control of all military land units with the exception of garrisons under the control of Governors and units assigned to settlers.
    A. The Secretary of War may not attack a city or unit of a neutral or allied Civilization, without the permission of the Citizens Assembly.​
    2. The Secretary of War shall have control of all air units.​
    III. The Cabinet
    1. Changes in the Offices of the Cabinet.
    A. The Triumvirate may Decree a change in powers or offices of the Cabinet.
    B. All Officials who are affected by a Decree must consent to it for the Decree to become official.
    C. Any Citizen may within 72 hours of the Official Decree start a non-conformation Poll. Should said poll be approved the Decree will not take place.
    D. Any changes done by Decree are in effect only during the term in which the Decree was made. To make the changes permanent an Amendment must be approved.

    IIIA. The Cabinet shall consist of, in order of seniority, the Censor, Minister of Interior, Minster of Culture, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.


    IIIB. The Powers and Duties of the Censor:
    1. The Censor shall post his Procedures of Censorship at the beginning of his term, defining how Official Polls will take place during his tenure.
    A. The Censor must obey the Procedures that he laid down for his term.​
    2. The Censor shall be the Official in charge of all elections.
    3. Censor shall be responsible for the official results of an election and for validating an election.
    4. The Censor is also responsible for validating any other official polls.
    5. The Censor posts all votes by the Assembly as instructions as needed.
    6. The Censor shall be responsible for maintaining a list of names for the naming of cities, units, and other appraise items, approved by the Citizens Assembly.

    IIIC. The Powers and Duties of the Minister of Interior:
    1. The Minister of the Interior shall be in control of all workers not assigned to Governors.
    2. The Minister of the Interior shall designate any specialization of Cities


    3. The Minister of the Interior shall designate how many units of each type to produce.
    A. The Governors may work it out amongst themselves on which city actually produces what.​
    4. The Minister of the Interior may decide where to build any Citizens Assembly approved Wonder.
    5. The Minister of the Interior shall keep track of the resources in our territory and where they are.
    6. The Minister of the Interior shall control all Great Engineers.

    IIID. Powers and Duties of the Minister of Culture:
    1. The Minister of Culture shall keep track of the Culture buildings in each city, the Culture of each city, and the religions in each city throughout the Empire, and shall may this information available to any citizen upon request.
    2. The Minister of Culture shall control all Great Artists, Great Merchants, and Great Prophets.
    3. The Minister of Culture shall be in charge of all Missionaries.
    4. The Minister of Culture will keep list of all of our Cities, their current culture level, how fast they are gaining culture, a projection of when they will next increase in culture, their current level on the Great Person Bar, how much is being gained on that bar per turn and when that city will produce a Great Person.
    5. The Minister of Culture may require a culture building to be built in a City once every 4 buildings, if none of the previous 3 buildings produced any culture. And what building it shall be.


    IIIE. Powers and Duties of the Minister of Science:
    1. The Minister of Science shall choose what technology will be researched.
    2. The Minister of Science shall keep a list of at least three technologies that are to be researched next and in what order.
    3. The Minister of Science shall control all Great People (was Scientists).

    IIIF. Powers and Duties of the Director of Intelligence:
    1. The Director of Intelligence shall keep records of all known Empires; the cities, religion, military units, wonders, and civics of those Empires. Records shall also be kept of the size, religion, improvements, and anything else deemed necessary about their cities.
    2. The Director of Intelligence shall have complete control of all spies.
    3. The Director of Intelligence shall be appointed by the Triumvirate.
    4. The Director of Intelligence, being an appointed position, shall not be affected by term limits.
    5. The Director of Intelligence may be fired by the Triumvirate.
    6. The Director of Intelligence shall keep track of the culture production, culture level, great people points production, status of the great person bar and when the next great person will be available. The Director of Intelligence shall make this information available to any citizens upon request.


    We should also remove "Minister of Culture" in some other parts of the Code of Laws.
     
  17. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    I see one conflict..Interior is in charge of Great engineers and then Science is in charge of all GP.

    What makes more sense all GP put in science or all but engineers? I think all GP put in science simply due to the light build option.
     
  18. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    sorry didn't see that, I'll change it
     
  19. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    OK I think we have to start a separate thread with it labeled as proposed amendment to fullfill the requirement for discussion. Some people may not look in this thread.

    Good job.
     
  20. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    How about giving Missionaries to the DoI. They can be used as spies and spreading religion helps LoS if we control the Holy City.
     

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