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Citizens discussion...Minister of Culture.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by robboo, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    Well, of course there are arguments for that, but as I see it, Missionaries are mostly used for spreading a religion inside a country, instead of using it to spread it to other countries. Certainly in our current situation.
     
  2. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    But at the same time, you make the DoI responsible for recording the culture of our own cities. If the Intelligence Agency shouldn't be involved inside Licentia, then the DoI shouldn't be responsible for recording culture, imho. It should be given to the President or the MoI.
     
  3. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Chieftain

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    Err, missionaries are used to spread religion to other coutnries, because if you have a state SPREAD religion, then over time your cities will obtain said religion.
     
  4. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    Sometimes you'll want it to spread fast (need for temples, monastries, shrine income, civic bonus)
     
  5. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    I wondering if we should cut this job..Strider still hasnt posted a thread
     
  6. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    Once the Governor's Council was created, the MoI duty list went down. That's why I think we should just give him all the duties the MoC used to have.
     
  7. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    hmm, we could do that, but I'd like to know what our other citizens want, because there are only like 4 people posting here.
     
  8. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    That's the way it always seems. Just wait until it's up for JR, then everyone will be breathing down your neck for this and that. It would be nice if those same people would get involved in this stage of law writing.
     
  9. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    George, what should I do now if a want this amendment to be accepted? Take it to the Judiciary?
     
  10. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    Black Hole posted this several months ago. You need to copy and paste that here. You also need to fill in the appropriate things. After at least 24 hours of discussion after the final revision of that post, ask the Judiciary to review this thread and that post specifically. If the Judiciary finds that there was enough discussion about the amendment, the Chief Justice will post the poll.
     
  11. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    This is a Citizen's Initiative poll for the amendment of the Code of Laws. The purpose of this amendment is to cancel the position of Minister of Culture.

    This is a public poll, and will run for 4 days. For this amendment to pass, a 6/10 majority of voters must vote 'Yes'.

    Link to discussion thread

    Do you wish to adopt this amendments?

    Current law:

    Quote:
    B) The Executive Branch

    I. This branch consists of the Triumvirate and any and all elected and appointed Cabinet Officials and their deputies.
    IA. The Triumvirate will consist of the President, Secretary of State, and the Secretary of War.
    IB. The Cabinet Officials will be any office that is not included as part of the Triumvirate, the Judiciary, a Gubernatorial office or the Designated Player. The Cabinet currently consists of the Censor, Minister of Interior, Minster of Culture, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.
    II. The Powers and Duties of the Triumvirate.
    1. The Triumvirate may change Cabinet Offices in a manner prescribed in Section 1, Sub-Section B, Clause III.
    2. During a time of War the Triumvirate may decide that a state of mobilization is necessary for [our nation] and declare that a State of Mobilization exists.
    3. The Triumvirate appoints the Director of Intelligence.
    4. Any member of the Triumvirate may post an order to stop the game session if certain posted criteria posted by that member are met and such criteria fall under the scope of the member’s office.
    A. Any member of the Triumvirate may endorse a stop order posted by a member of the Cabinet, if such order is within the scope of Cabinet member’s office. A member of the Triumvirate must endorse a Cabinet member’s stop order for said order to be legal.
    5. State of Mobilization
    A. A State of Mobilization can only be declared in a time of War.
    B. A State of Mobilization may not last more than 15 game turns. However, if Peace is declared and a State of War exists with no Civilization, the State of Mobilization ends immediately.
    C. A State of Mobilization may not be declared until at least 45 game turns have elapsed since the ending of the last Mobilization.
    D. A State of Mobilization may be ended prematurely by a 6/10 (60%) vote of the Governors Council after at least 7 game turns of Mobilization have passed.
    i. Should Mobilization be ended prematurely, it may be declared again in only 25 game turns.
    E. Effects of Mobilization:
    i. The control of all workers goes the Triumvirate during this period, but the Minister of the Interior and the Governors retain control of a worker until a worker is specifically requested by the Triumvirate. The Triumvirate may not force a worker to quit an action assigned to it by the Minister of the Interior or a Governor, but must wait until that particular action has completed or is ended by the original authority.
    ii. The Triumvirate may change what is under construction in any city except for those that have begun a Citizen Assembly approved Wonder or have begun prebuild for approved Wonder. The Triumvirate may only order that military units or building may be built.
    iii. The Triumvirate may take up to one half of the prewar garrison of a city in to the regular army during a State of Mobilization.
    IIA. The Powers and Duties of the President
    1. During the Turnchat the President, or a Representative of the President, may order the ending of play if continuing requires a decision to be made that can only be made by the Citizens Assembly. If the Turns are being played offline the Designated Player must end play if he is forced to make a decision that can only be made by the Citizens Assembly, provided that no vote on said decision has concluded.
    2. The President will define a budget that all other official may not exceed without permission.
    3. The President may change the Tax slider no more than 10% every 10 turns, with these exceptions:
    A. The President may change taxes up to 30% in the event of budget shortfall: our nation losing money instead of gaining or staying even. However the President must see that a vote is brought on the matter before the next Game Session.
    B. The turn on which a technology is discovered the President may change taxes by as much as 50% but must see that a vote is brought on the matter before the next Game Session.
    4. The President is responsible for resolving disputes between officials.
    5. The President has all powers not expressly given to another official and not retained by the Citizens Assembly.
    6. The units the President controls:
    A. The President shall control all Settler and the defensive units assigned to them.
    B. The President shall control all naval units.
    IIB. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of State
    1. The Secretary of State shall have control of the Foreign policy of our nation with the exception in the Declaration of War/Peace/Alliance and the trade of cities.
    A. The Secretary of State needs the permission of the Citizens Assembly: War/Peace/Alliance or the giving away of one of our Nation's cities.
    B. The Secretary of State has the power to accept a city.
    IIC. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of War
    1. The Secretary of War shall have control of all military land units with the exception of garrisons under the control of Governors and units assigned to settlers.
    A. The Secretary of War may not attack a city or unit of a neutral or allied Civilization, without the permission of the Citizens Assembly.
    2. The Secretary of War shall have control of all air units.
    III. The Cabinet
    1. Changes in the Offices of the Cabinet.
    A. The Triumvirate may Decree a change in powers or offices of the Cabinet.
    B. All Officials who are affected by a Decree must consent to it for the Decree to become official.
    C. Any Citizen may within 72 hours of the Official Decree start a non-conformation Poll. Should said poll be approved the Decree will not take place.
    D. Any changes done by Decree are in effect only during the term in which the Decree was made. To make the changes permanent an Amendment must be approved.
    IIIA. The Cabinet shall consist of, in order of seniority, the Censor, Minister of Interior, Minster of Culture, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.
    IIIB. The Powers and Duties of the Censor:
    1. The Censor shall post his Procedures of Censorship at the beginning of his term, defining how Official Polls will take place during his tenure.
    A. The Censor must obey the Procedures that he laid down for his term.
    2. The Censor shall be the Official in charge of all elections.
    3. Censor shall be responsible for the official results of an election and for validating an election.
    4. The Censor is also responsible for validating any other official polls.
    5. The Censor posts all votes by the Assembly as instructions as needed.
    6. The Censor shall be responsible for maintaining a list of names for the naming of cities, units, and other appraise items, approved by the Citizens Assembly.
    IIIC. The Powers and Duties of the Minister of Interior:
    1. The Minister of the Interior shall be in control of all workers not assigned to Governors.
    2. The Minister of the Interior shall designate any specialization of Cities
    3. The Minister of the Interior shall designate how many units of each type to produce.
    A. The Governors may work it out amongst themselves on which city actually produces what.
    4. The Minister of the Interior may decide where to build any Citizens Assembly approved Wonder.
    5. The Minister of the Interior shall keep track of the resources in our territory and where they are.
    6. The Minister of the Interior shall control all Great Engineers.
    IIID. Powers and Duties of the Minister of Culture:
    1. The Minister of Culture shall keep track of the Culture buildings in each city, the Culture of each city, and the religions in each city throughout the Empire, and shall may this information available to any citizen upon request.
    2. The Minister of Culture shall control all Great Artists, Great Merchants, and Great Prophets.
    3. The Minister of Culture shall be in charge of all Missionaries.
    4. The Minister of Culture will keep list of all of our Cities, their current culture level, how fast they are gaining culture, a projection of when they will next increase in culture, their current level on the Great Person Bar, how much is being gained on that bar per turn and when that city will produce a Great Person.
    5. The Minister of Culture may require a culture building to be built in a City once every 4 buildings, if none of the previous 3 buildings produced any culture. And what building it shall be.
    IIIE. Powers and Duties of the Minister of Science:
    1. The Minister of Science shall choose what technology will be researched.
    2. The Minister of Science shall keep a list of at least three technologies that are to be researched next and in what order.
    3. The Minister of Science shall control all Great Scientists.
    IIIF. Powers and Duties of the Director of Intelligence:
    1. The Director of Intelligence shall keep records of all known Empires; the cities, religion, military units, wonders, and civics of those Empires. Records shall also be kept of the size, religion, improvements, and anything else deemed necessary about their cities.
    2. The Director of Intelligence shall have complete control of all spies.
    3. The Director of Intelligence shall be appointed by the Triumvirate.
    4. The Director of Intelligence, being an appointed position, shall not be affected by term limits.
    5. The Director of Intelligence may be fired by the Triumvirate.


    Proposed Amendment, completely replacing above section:

    Quote:
    B) The Executive Branch



    I. This branch consists of the Triumvirate and any and all elected and appointed Cabinet Officials and their deputies.
    IA. The Triumvirate will consist of the President, Secretary of State, and the Secretary of War.
    IB. The Cabinet Officials will be any office that is not included as part of the Triumvirate, the Judiciary, a Gubernatorial office or the Designated Player. The Cabinet currently consists of the Censor, Minister of Interior, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.


    II. The Powers and Duties of the Triumvirate.
    1. The Triumvirate may change Cabinet Offices in a manner prescribed in Section 1, Sub-Section B, Clause III.
    2. During a time of War the Triumvirate may decide that a state of mobilization is necessary for Licentia and declare that a State of Mobilization exists.
    3. The Triumvirate appoints the Director of Intelligence.


    4. Any member of the Triumvirate may post an order to stop the game session if certain posted criteria posted by that member are met and such criteria fall under the scope of the member’s office.
    A. Any member of the Triumvirate may endorse a stop order posted by a member of the Cabinet, if such order is within the scope of Cabinet member’s office. A member of the Triumvirate must endorse a Cabinet member’s stop order for said order to be legal.
    5. State of Mobilization
    A. A State of Mobilization can only be declared in a time of War.
    B. A State of Mobilization may not last more than 15 game turns. However, if Peace is declared and a State of War exists with no Civilization, the State of Mobilization ends immediately.
    C. A State of Mobilization may not be declared until at least 45 game turns have elapsed since the ending of the last Mobilization.


    D. A State of Mobilization may be ended prematurely by a 6/10 (60%) vote of the Governors Council after at least 7 game turns of Mobilization have passed.
    i. Should Mobilization be ended prematurely, it may be declared again in only 25 game turns.
    E. Effects of Mobilization:
    i. The control of all workers goes the Triumvirate during this period, but the Minister of the Interior and the Governors retain control of a worker until a worker is specifically requested by the Triumvirate. The Triumvirate may not force a worker to quit an action assigned to it by the Minister of the Interior or a Governor, but must wait until that particular action has completed or is ended by the original authority.
    ii. The Triumvirate may change what is under construction in any city except for those that have begun a Citizen Assembly approved Wonder or have begun prebuild for approved Wonder. The Triumvirate may only order that military units or building may be built.
    iii. The Triumvirate may take up to one half of the prewar garrison of a city in to the regular army during a State of Mobilization.


    IIA. The Powers and Duties of the President
    1. During the Turnchat the President, or a Representative of the President, may order the ending of play if continuing requires a decision to be made that can only be made by the Citizens Assembly. If the Turns are being played offline the Designated Player must end play if he is forced to make a decision that can only be made by the Citizens Assembly, provided that no vote on said decision has concluded.
    2. The President will define a budget that all other official may not exceed without permission.


    3. The President may change the Tax slider no more than 10% every 10 turns, with these exceptions:
    A. The President may change taxes up to 30% in the event of budget shortfall: our nation losing money instead of gaining or staying even. However the President must see that a vote is brought on the matter before the next Game Session.
    B. The turn on which a technology is discovered the President may change taxes by as much as 50% but must see that a vote is brought on the matter before the next Game Session.


    4. The President is responsible for resolving disputes between officials.
    5. The President has all powers not expressly given to another official and not retained by the Citizens Assembly.


    6. The units the President controls:
    A. The President shall control all Settler and the defensive units assigned to them.
    B. The President shall control all naval units.
    C. The President shall control all missionaries.



    IIB. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of State
    1. The Secretary of State shall have control of the Foreign policy of our nation with the exception in the Declaration of War/Peace/Alliance and the trade of cities.
    A. The Secretary of State needs the permission of the Citizens Assembly: War/Peace/Alliance or the giving away of one of our Nation's cities.
    B. The Secretary of State has the power to accept a city.


    IIC. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of War
    1. The Secretary of War shall have control of all military land units with the exception of garrisons under the control of Governors and units assigned to settlers.
    A. The Secretary of War may not attack a city or unit of a neutral or allied Civilization, without the permission of the Citizens Assembly.
    2. The Secretary of War shall have control of all air units.
    III. The Cabinet
    1. Changes in the Offices of the Cabinet.
    A. The Triumvirate may Decree a change in powers or offices of the Cabinet.
    B. All Officials who are affected by a Decree must consent to it for the Decree to become official.
    C. Any Citizen may within 72 hours of the Official Decree start a non-conformation Poll. Should said poll be approved the Decree will not take place.
    D. Any changes done by Decree are in effect only during the term in which the Decree was made. To make the changes permanent an Amendment must be approved.


    IIIA. The Cabinet shall consist of, in order of seniority, the Censor, Minister of Interior, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.


    IIIB. The Powers and Duties of the Censor:
    1. The Censor shall post his Procedures of Censorship at the beginning of his term, defining how Official Polls will take place during his tenure.
    A. The Censor must obey the Procedures that he laid down for his term.
    2. The Censor shall be the Official in charge of all elections.
    3. Censor shall be responsible for the official results of an election and for validating an election.
    4. The Censor is also responsible for validating any other official polls.
    5. The Censor posts all votes by the Assembly as instructions as needed.
    6. The Censor shall be responsible for maintaining a list of names for the naming of cities, units, and other appraise items, approved by the Citizens Assembly.


    IIIC. The Powers and Duties of the Minister of Interior:
    1. The Minister of the Interior shall be in control of all workers not assigned to Governors.
    2. The Minister of the Interior shall designate any specialization of Cities


    3. The Minister of the Interior shall designate how many units of each type to produce.
    A. The Governors may work it out amongst themselves on which city actually produces what.
    4. The Minister of the Interior may decide where to build any Citizens Assembly approved Wonder.
    5. The Minister of the Interior shall keep track of the resources in our territory and where they are.

    IIIE. Powers and Duties of the Minister of Science:
    1. The Minister of Science shall choose what technology will be researched.
    2. The Minister of Science shall keep a list of at least three technologies that are to be researched next and in what order.
    3. The Minister of Science shall control all Great People.


    IIIF. Powers and Duties of the Director of Intelligence:
    1. The Director of Intelligence shall keep records of all known Empires; the cities, religion, military units, wonders, and civics of those Empires. Records shall also be kept of the size, religion, improvements, and anything else deemed necessary about their cities.
    2. The Director of Intelligence shall have complete control of all spies.
    3. The Director of Intelligence shall be appointed by the Triumvirate.
    4. The Director of Intelligence, being an appointed position, shall not be affected by term limits.
    5. The Director of Intelligence may be fired by the Triumvirate.
    6. The Director of Intelligence shall keep track of the culture production, culture level, great people points production, status of the great person bar and when the next great person will be available. The Director of Intelligence shall make this information available to any citizens upon request.




    Poll Question: Do you wish to amend Section 1B of the Code of Laws as follows?

    Yes
    No
    Abstain

    Poll settings:
    Duration - 4 days
    Public Poll - Checked
     
  12. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    Dutch...check that again..the MoC is still in there. I think you copied the wrong section to the bottom:)
     
  13. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    And could you colorize the changes like you did before? I don't exactally want to read both all the way through to try to find all the changes.
     
  14. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    @robboo Yes, because I copied it, but didn't copy the colours, the parts that were red, are still in there.

    @GeorgeOP the colorcoded version is just 1 page back, I can't colorcode this one, because the parts that are red shouldn't be in the new version.
     
  15. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    Sure they should. When this is put into an actual poll, it will help people realize what the changes are. The poll will simply be a copy of that post. Although the color won't comy, it will help the CJ color the correct parts if that post is colorized.

    And I still think Item 6 of the DoI should be the domain of the MoI.
     
  16. dutchfire

    dutchfire Moderator Moderator

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    Well, I put in
    So the DoI only has to give it if a citizen requests it. And the Info can be found easily on screenshots of the cities that are there most of the time already. So the idea is that if there aren't any screenshots giving the information in the cartographer thread (Would have given this to cartographer, but it's an unofficial position), or in the MoI thread, or in the governor's thread, then (and only then) the DoI comes in, giving the information.
     
  17. robboo

    robboo Chieftain

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    OK whats the next step..
    It seems our MoC appointee leftwithout accepting..oh well...much as I figured( based on his past) but hoped to be wrong.

    As of Now I will accept all necessary duties of the MoC till the end of the term at which point I hope this amendment is in the CoL
    (making the necessary posts to inform our citizens)
     
  18. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    The next step is for Dutch (the one that wrote the law) to ask the Judiciary to review this mock poll for possible turning into a real poll.
     

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