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Citizenship vs. hijabs/niqabs/burkas. Fight!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Puck Nutty, Feb 22, 2015.

  1. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Do you consider it gender discrimination for a woman to choose to receive medical services from a female doctor or nurse?
     
  2. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Yes, it obviously is, by definition.

    In the context of a family physician, there's not much to be done about it since you're essentially free to pick any physician who'll have you for any reason you wish.

    In the context of an emergency situation, scheduled specialist service, etc. it should be handled the same as a man choosing a male doctor because he doesn't think a female doctor is competent, or a white person choosing a white doctor because he doesn't feel comfortable with a black doctor.
     
  3. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    In an emergency, I'd take any doctor available. But in a non-emergency, I prefer the right to choose, for reasons which are personal and not up for discussion here.

    In the case of the woman and her citizenship situation, she should be able to request a female official to take her oath, if she doesn't want to uncover her face in front of non-familial males.
     
  4. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I feel the same way with sunglasses. Especially those very shiny ones.

    As for this woman and her headscarf and citizenship swearing in ceremony...

    I really don't know. Does this woman want to be a Canadian citizen or not?

    On the other hand this is just a storm in teacup. A lot of fuss about nothing on both sides, imo.

    I don't get it. No one is obliged, or not obliged, to wear a headscarf of any description. And no one is obliged to become a Canadian citizen. It's all about choices.
     
  5. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    Women with sunglasses always seem so icy.
     
  6. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    Doesn't everyone getting Canadian citizenship have to wear a hockey mask during the ceremony? A niqab doesn't seem so much worse to me.
     
  7. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I've seen a couple of citizenship ceremonies. Nobody wears a hockey mask.
     
  8. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I love a quiz. Do prospective Canadians get to do a quiz?

    Like this one?

    It's a tough one, though. You've a mere 45 minutes to answer 24 questions. And some of them are truly hilarious.
     
  9. nc-1701

    nc-1701 bombombedum

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    I'll echo this. I mean I'm not a fan of the face covering at all, and anything where someone else might be required to show their face (ID photos etc.) they should have to show their face.

    But anything else just seems like being a dick because you don't like it, which isn't very fair imo.

    Now another question I'm not sure I've ever heard discussed... In many Southern (US) cities it is illegal to cover your face in public except on Halloween. I almost got arrested on my way to a masquerade party once because of this:blush: Historically the laws were enacted to combat the Klan back in the day, but it would seem they pretty explicitly ban Muslim head scarves. Yet I'm not aware of this issue ever coming up.
     
  10. jackelgull

    jackelgull An aberration of nature

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    I tried this quiz and without any prior studying I got a 70%. Not bad.
     
  11. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    Well done! I now pronounce you a British citizen.

    But if you're unhappy with that result, you can try it again. The site just keeps churning out questions.
     
  12. jackelgull

    jackelgull An aberration of nature

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    Yeah, and I particularly loved the question about Julius Caesar trying to conquer Britain. I just saw that and was like, that has nothing to do with being a good citizen, but I do know this because I love history.

    Unfortunately, I'm not a British citizen- I need to get a 75%.
     
  13. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    Oh that's OK. It's well known that there's a margin of error of 5% on these tests.

    You're in, now, whether you like it or not.

    Now. About all that back tax you owe the Inland Revenue...
     
  14. PhroX

    PhroX Deity

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    I remember back when I worked in a bookshop, we sold the guide for completing the UK Citizenship Test. Even ignoring the fact that none of the half-dozen of us who worked there, all UK citizens from birth, could get more than about 50% on the practice tests, some of the sections were uttely hillarious. There's one on "social life" or somesuch which went into detail on the etiquette of buying a round when you're in a pub. It sounded like it had been written by someone who had never set foot in a pub in their life...
     
  15. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    *shrug* You get to choose where you shop too.

    So then for citizenship we should accept dudes in ski masks who'll only take off their balaclavas in the presence of males.
     
  16. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    I think that if you want to come to Canada and become a Canadian, you need to be ready to incorporate some of our cultural norms and expectations into your daily life - such as the community-based aspect of the society we have here and want to maintain. Covering your face except for your eyes during the swearing in ceremony should as such not be acceptable, as it is not compatible with our values.

    However, it's fine to wear a head covering - I don't have a problem with that. What's a big "no no" in my eyes is a face covering. That's just not compatible with Canadian ideals - it's something you need to accept if you want to become a citizen. And if you don't want to, that's fine, just don't apply for Canadian citizenship. It's up to the person - let them make that decision. What's more important to them - wanting to become a Canadian or their reasons for wanting to cover their face?
     
  17. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    Supposing it's someone with facial disfiguring?

    I saw a woman with a flesh-coloured face mask in the supermarket the other day. It only covered one half of her face and was a really cunning disguise. I didn't realize what it was at first, and had to double-take. Before hurrying on so I didn't stare. I hope I didn't stare, anyway.
     
  18. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    I am not against exceptions for medical reasons.
     
  19. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    LMAO at the UK citizenship test, that thing is ridiculous.
     
  20. Puck Nutty

    Puck Nutty Prince

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    Not to be a dick, but what values would those be? If you mean to reference a woman's right to freedom and equality, I agree. Nobody of either gender should be forced to dress a certain way. However, if a woman freely chooses to cover her face (for whatever reason) then I would suggest that Canadian values should support her in that choice.
     

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