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City Builds

Discussion in 'Team Saturn' started by Duke Blackstone, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. Duke Blackstone

    Duke Blackstone John Marchman

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    With the current lack of great land what is the build order? I think after our boat we finish the warrior while getting AH and then go worker or scout depending on recources. Thoughts?
     
  2. plako

    plako Emperor

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    The starting position thread contains the plan made before the start of the game. Here are links to the plan:

    BW first:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7491363&postcount=25

    Pottery first:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7494130&postcount=31

    Therefore after WB we would finish warrior and possibly start another until population is 4 and then start worker.

    However I've suggested in the exploration thread a deviation to the plan and work FP until we're at size 2 and then work crab and ForestedPlainsHill until WB is ready.
     
  3. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    After testing things and making crazy posts in the exploration thread, my vote for build order/tile working is:

    - Build workboat working floodplains until size 2
    - Once size 2, work grassland forest and plains hill forest to build workboat
    - Once workboat is complete, move grassland forest citizen to clams, keep other citizen on plains hill forest to finish warrior in one turn (for exploration)
    - Switch second citizen to floodplains, begin worker
    - Then let city grow some while building warriors/scouts/whatever, should be ready for our first settler at size four (city can then work clams, sheep and two floodplain cottages, that's a lot of commerce!)
     
  4. Hercules90

    Hercules90 Deity

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    Well if you have done all the testing, Joshua, then I'll support you.
     
  5. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Here is a direct comparison of the two choices.

    Option #1: Work plains-hill-forest immediately to build work boat, grow to size 2 working Clams, then work Clams and flood plains to build Worker:

    - Work Boat 8 turns from present (1 turn quicker)
    - Warrior 10 turns from present (exact same)
    - Animal Husbandry 10 turns from present (exact same)
    - 1 turn invested in a second Warrior (wasted time)
    - The Wheel 17 turns from present (exact same)
    - Worker 21 turns from present (1 turn longer)
    - Pottery 23 turns from present (exact same)

    Option #2: Grow to size 2 using flood plains, work grassland-forest and plains-hill-forest to finish Work Boat, work flood plains and Crabs to finish Warrior and build Worker:

    - Work Boat in 9 turns (1 turn longer)
    - Warrior 10 turns from present (exact same)
    - Animal Husbandry 10 turns from present (exact same)
    - The Wheel 17 turns from present (exact same)
    - Worker 20 turns from present (1 turn quicker)
    - Pottery 23 turns from present (exact same)

    So, in summary: The only difference between the two strategies is that one gets the Work Boat in 8 turns instead of 9, while the other gets the Worker in 20 turns instead of 21. It is interesting to note that there is no difference of any significance in research times between the two options.

    Overall, I think that it's better to have the Worker 1 turn sooner than the Work Boat 1 turn sooner. That way, the Worker will be able to hook up the Sheep 1 turn sooner, and build the two flood-plains-cottages 1 turn sooner.

    So, the plan should be: Grow to size 2 using flood plains, work grassland-forest and plains-hill-forest to finish Work Boat, work flood plains and Crabs to finish Warrior and build Worker:

    It's our turn now so I'll need to play soon. Is everyone in favour? :)
     
  6. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Just noticed plako's post. I did a test of this option just now.

    Option #3: "Work FP until we're at size 2 and then work crab and ForestedPlainsHill until WB is ready." - plako

    - Work Boat 10 turns from present (2 turns longer)
    - Warrior 11 turns from present (1 turn longer)
    - Animal Husbandry 9 turns from present (1 turn quicker)
    - The Wheel 16 turns from present (1 turn quicker)
    - Worker 21 turns from present (1 turn longer)
    - Pottery 22 turns from present (1 turn quicker)

    This option puts us a little further ahead in research at the expense of delaying the Worker by a turn. I think that we'd probably be better off with an earlier Worker though, since that leads to an earlier Settler. Not completely sure though. I'm split between #2 and #3 now.
     
  7. Hercules90

    Hercules90 Deity

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    Option 2 by a shade.
     
  8. plako

    plako Emperor

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    Option 2 is best. We're not going to utilise pottery right away and the difference in research isn't that big and can be compensated with earlier improvements.
     
  9. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Option 2 for me, pretty much what I figured earlier. Faster worker makes for faster cottages.
     
  10. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I will side with option 2, as long as the math is correct here.
     
  11. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Joshua368 and I discussed for a while about the two options, and decided it came down to whether we'd get Bronze Working in time for the Worker to start chopping. Option 2 does indeed manage this (just in the nick of time, using a little trick to squeeze out a bit more commerce that I'll mention later), so I think we should go with Option 2. Joshua368 agrees, and we should really play soon, so I'll go with Option 2 unless anybody disagrees within a very short period. :)

    (By the way, the trick for squeezing out a bit more commerce is that once we reach size 2, we alternate between flood plains and (unimproved) sheep, instead of grassland-forest. The latter option yields 4 food and 2 hammers per 2 turns; the former gives us 4 food, 2 hammers and 1 commerce per 2 turns. A slight edge, but enough to shave a turn off Bronze Working. ;) )
     
  12. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    I hope so. :D Joshua and I played through two separate test games and reached the same idea, so with luck we haven't messed anything up.
     
  13. plako

    plako Emperor

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    Lord Parkin:
    There is little bit less micro management, if you work first two times Flood plains and then 4 turns 2*ForestedPlainsHill.
     
  14. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Good point, noted. :)
     
  15. Scuum

    Scuum Warlord

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    vote for option 2

    when are we going to build our setter? after the worker?
     
  16. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    We'll probably build a few more Warriors while we wait for the city to grow a bit. We at least want to be able to work the Clams and Sheep, plus the 2 nice flood-plain-cottages. :)
     
  17. plako

    plako Emperor

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    After the worker is ready (~turn 27) we're still pop 2 and we don't have BW to chop settler (at the earliest BW will be ready ~turn 33, if we change plans and take BW before Pottery). I think the plan is to raise population to 4 as fast as possible and meanwhile build Warriors/Scouts. After the population is 4 (~turn 36), we'll start our first settler working 2*cottages, sheep and crab. BW comes ~turn 42 so it probably won't help to get our first settler any sooner.
     
  18. Duke Blackstone

    Duke Blackstone John Marchman

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    I like it and the math agrees. We need Horses/Bronze close though
     
  19. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Well as it is, we'll get Bronze Working on exactly the same turn as the worker finishes his second floodplain cottage. At this point the city will be at size four so we should probably be able to chop the settler out relatively quickly.
     
  20. plako

    plako Emperor

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    The settler is almost ready when the worker gets the first chop done (maybe 1-2 turns left), if the settler is started right away when population 4 has been reached.
     

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