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[R&F] City Defense Mechanism changed

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Lily_Lancer, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    In Cree first look, the Dutch city defense show 67,71,21 simutaneously, which is not possible under current defense mechanism, even with the defense governor added. so this mechanism must have been changed.

    This will influence domination quite a lot.
     
  2. kaspergm

    kaspergm Chieftain

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    The numbers look a bit fishy, however. Can we trust these numbers to actually hold true? I mean, Anhem has walls but only a defense og 21, whereas Amsterdam and Eindhoven, neither of which have walls, have defense over 60?
     
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    It seems that the strongest dutch unit is Spearman, so according to original function all its city defense shall be ~20. This 60+ defense is really a good bonus. I'd like to see city strength enhanced so that players will not take AI cities that easily and quickly, thus adding more interesting playstyles to the game.
     
    cvb likes this.
  4. TomKQT

    TomKQT Chieftain

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    Would it be even possible to capture a 60+ city with spearman-era units? It's just a video made from some unknown source (could be some very specific testing build with tweaked numbers etc.), so we should wait with any conclusions until the release (or announcement of city defence update).
     
    Olleus and kaspergm like this.
  5. Jaybe

    Jaybe Chieftain Supporter

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    The high city strength numbers is really simple: the Dutch were set up as a few eras ahead for some innocent reason.

    Innocent unless it was solely to screw with our minds, of course. :lol:
     
  6. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    I'd actually like cities to be much weaker. Borders were way more fluid historically than they are represented as in this game. While tile, city, and civ integration makes Civ IV mechanics much less feasible (districts, wonders), cities trading hands more frequently would be fairly realistic.
     
    conorbebe likes this.
  7. Arent11

    Arent11 Chieftain

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    That would make siege units much more worthwhile. I would like it.
     
    Phoenix1595 likes this.
  8. Phoenix1595

    Phoenix1595 Lord of the Two Lands

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    Poor seige units... Good idea, but poor implementation. Maybe they did recaliberate city defenses to force us to use battering rams and seige towers.
     
  9. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    As long as rams and towers remain unchanged siege weapons will never be useful.

    Battering ram is too imbalanced. I'd like to see its effect been reduced to 50% or 75%.
     
    Victoria and Arent11 like this.
  10. empresskiova

    empresskiova Chieftain

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    Catapults aren’t that bad when used in conjuction with Generals. They can sit outside of the City Range and fire.

    They can also camp on Encampments, attacking cities/other encampments. This is especially fun since Cities/Encampments can only attack units.

    There’s also the option to start the game in a later era, when Rams and Towers are useless.
     
  11. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    When you manage to move your ram next to the enemy city it is already taken, since on such case every knight becomes a 48strength catapult, 55 with 2 promotions.

    I don't think catapults can reach such effect.
     
  12. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    This should probably be a video error. If not, maybe in the expansion coastal city's defenses would be combined with the best naval unit‘s strength (Netherlands UU has nearly 60~70 strength?)
     
  13. Arent11

    Arent11 Chieftain

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    I would like them to apply only to one unit. That would also be realistic, after all a ram only allows you to attack one side of a castle.

    I would also like infantry to have a combat advantage in rough & city terrain & cavalry a combat disadvantage in such terrain.
     
    criZp, Victoria and Depravo like this.
  14. TomKQT

    TomKQT Chieftain

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    In Civ5, cavalry units used to have a negative modified when attacking cities and I agree with you that it makes sense. Also the rough terrain.
     
    Arent11 likes this.
  15. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

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    I wouldn't put any stock in numbers in these promo vids. They routinely doctor up saves to highlight certain aspects.
     
  16. empresskiova

    empresskiova Chieftain

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    Catapults come an era earlier than Knights. 1 General boosted Catapult is all it takes to kill Ancient Walls (maybe not on Deity, but it works per normal rules). After that, the city is yours for the taking.
     
  17. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    I can get 10+ Knights with GG before T70, but cannot get that much catapults at that time. I don't agree catapults are earlier, if you based on actual plays instead of "era". Nor are they cheaper since prod or upgrade of knights can both be bonused by policy.

    They're just a lot weaker.
     
  18. Cerilis

    Cerilis Not Warlord

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    If they would increase city defense that much I'd like to see actual sieges, with besieged cities losing hp/a supply counter until they surrender without even the need to attack. :p
     
    kryat likes this.
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Non ranged Mounted, Rams and Naval ranged vs Cities are too strong. If they reduced their strength you would get a much better choice in the game.

    Additionally allowing spears a discount build card is so required I weep tears of frustration from time to time. I mean the huge majority of armies were spears for a very long time and where do we see them in our game? ... Barbarians or for a CS quest.
    Spear or spear equivalents(pike/halberd) were the primary weapon of the majority of armies up until muskets. A spear unit was common because it was cheap to make and train. Cmon Firaxis, spears were what a large amount of the army was fleshed out with with the cool and more expensive units like mounted and swordsmen being in the minority. Instead the spear as well as being fairly weak is also more expensive because Agoge does not cover it... Criminal injustice in a good game that could be made so much better with a simple change.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  20. criZp

    criZp Chieftain

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    better anti-cavalry units mod does that, if you don't mind using mods to fix the game.
     

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