City Improvement Puzzle - Quill18's Rome game

Alchemy101

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For those of us not lucky enough to have access to the pre-release media version of the game I thought it may be entertaining to see how and why you might develop your first city in terms of district placement and some improvements.

For this thought experiment let's use Quill18's Rome game published to Youtube on Sep 29, 2016 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs3acGYgI1-srHH9i_RycDLUXkjhDc9jy). An image of the starting city can be found below. Firstly, I wish the thank Quill for the most excellent gameplay footage and commentary. I have been a subscriber to his Youtube channel for years.

The Question: Where, and in what order, would place your first three districts and why?

Note: This is a theoretical open-ended question, a puzzle of sorts. There is likely no single optimal placement of three districts and accompanying improvements since city development is highly situational and dynamic. However, considering that city development, especially placement and timing of districts will be very important I am curious how you might address this finite yet complex puzzle. More importantly, I'm curious why you choose your solution.

The Rules: Using the assumptions regarding district adjacency bonuses and other information currently available on the web, please provide the following:
  1. Which three districts would you build? On which tiles? In what order? and why?
  2. Feel free to use any tile improvements necessary (e.g. mines, quarries, farms, etc.). It may be helpful to denote the general order of time improvements associated with each of the three districts.
  3. You may assume any technology level you wish or the inclusion of Wonders (planned or placed), simply include them in your description and assumptions.
Have fun "solving" the puzzle.
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Here is my stab at a solution - likely not optimal and perhaps myopic.

Spoiler :
This site has a very strong production focus (3 stone) I would prioritize an industrial district but since this will come later in the tech/civic tree I'd likely start with faith.

Builder: Farm (wheat), Quarry (stone by river), Quarry (stone)
#1 Holy Site District (adjacent to 3 woods, purchase tile if necessary).
Why: This is the first available district type and the holy site will provide higher yields than a campus (to start).​
Builder: Mine (mercury, when available/needed), Farm or Quarry (stone), +?
#2 Commercial District (adjacent to river, 2 hex sides).
Why: Perhaps a campus would be a better option but I picture Rome as a military and economic powerhouse. This build will grade additional gold and a trade route that can be used to shift production to any city.​
#3 Industrial District (centered among the quarries).
Why: This district will likely become availbile later than the Commerical District. It will provide maximum adjacency bonuses from the quarries and the other districts.​

Research would obviously need to be shifted to a different subsequent city. This may stifle technological development. Alternatively, the Industrial district might be better adjacent to the quarry and mercury and latter two additional mines (hills). This placement may yield more advantageous overlap with other cities since the are north of Rome is primarily tundra and likely will not support many cities.

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Here is my stab at a solution - likely not optimal and perhaps myopic.

This site has a very strong production focus (3 stone) I would prioritize an industrial district but since this will come later in the tech/civic tree I'd likely start with faith.

Builder: Farm (wheat), Quarry (stone by river), Quarry (stone)
I heartily agree with everything in your reply except perhaps your plan for the initial builder. I wonder if it would be better to improve the wheat, a quarry, and the mercury to maximize the eurekas? (Mining the mercury instead of putting another quarry down will give you the eureka for The Wheel.)
 
Big fan of these kind of puzzles. I think alchemy has it.

Spoiler :
The site doesn't lend itself to a campus, and at least on Prince it doesn't seem like pushing early science actually gets you very much anyway.

You're going to want commercial districts as Rome to take advantage of the trade route UA. And it looks like industrial zones are going to be a must-have district for every city you can get them in.

The only thing I would do differently is chop the river forest instead of the third farm. Holy Sites only get +1 for every two forests, so you'd still get the same bonus to that district, but you'd be able to get it online faster. That river spot would also be excellent for another district/Big Ben later in the game. Might as well get the production bonus when it can really help. The farm triangle bonus doesn't come into play until later with Feudalism, so I'd hold off on that third farm until then.
 
Sprenk - Thank you for the insights. I did not factor in eurekas.

timmyfiction - I would much rather be playing but in the absence of that, this thought experiments will have to suffice. Thank for the woods factor correction, I misread the table. Your comments about rushing production and Big Ben are relevant thank you.
 
Hex west of city across rover,a logging camp. This keeps it as woods for holy site. With all the quarries, mercury and hills, Rome should be mainly used as a production powerhouse. Enough flat land to south to feed the city.
 
Holy sites get minor adjacency from woods, not standard.

Also I'd question the decision to pick a holy site over a campus solely because the initial adjacency for one is stronger than the other. It's about overall goals, you're putting off the campus in this city indefinitely which means you're sacrificing the initial 2 science per turn in favor of +3 faith. I really don't see those two yields as equivalent, at all.
 
I love these threads and I am really surprised we didn't have more of these before launch. I'll have a look later today.
 
#2 Commercial District (adjacent to river, 2 hex sides)
The description says +2 for each adjacent river. It might be that you can get +4 if they are 2 different rivers, but the previews have showed that you don't get +4 from being adjacent to 2 tiles of the same river.
 
Hmm. I'd do things a little different. I try to make my capitals hubs of my empires, so I'd want industrial and entertainment districts here, so they can radiate their benefits when factories and zoos start. So the big thing for me is working out where my empire is likely to be, and that tundra to the north is giant red flag. Tundra is really awful in this game, best use is burning it for districts and wonders.

Once builders and military (and monument if this were not Rome), (and debatably a settler, not sure on that timing) I'd start on a campus at the base of the river in the fog (sw from the wheat then one tile west), Yes, adjacency bonuses are lacking, and will stay lacking.
So #1: campus. (future cities I'd look for a good campus location, but this Rome just lacks one). I'd also have a builder chop the forest and marsh next to the city while this is building to push the city forward
#2: industrial. east of the campus (so SW of the wheat, and the farm triangle.) With a mine on that hill (for a bonus, and I'd buy and chop the forest to the SW of this tile
#3: entertainment, where that forest was, completing the district triangle.

It isn't ideal and I don't quite like giving up all the adjacent bonuses for the industrial zone, but long term I can be certain to be handing production and amenities out to at least three cities near Rome.
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Alternately, for a better starting focus...
#1 Theatre square, tundra tile west of the tundra forest. Campus is just bad in this city, but theatre can be made to be good.
#2 Commercial district, NE of Rome above the quarry (east of the river), more trade routes, more gold, useful.
#3 Industrial zone, snug amidst the quarries and next to 1 and 2, out of all the zones, industrial feels the most mandatory. Production is the biggest limiter.

Several wonders out into the tundra, adjacent to the theatre square. The forest tundra tile adjacent to the commercial and theatre district can be saved for big ben.

Under this set up, city #2 will prioritize an excellent campus location.

In general, I really hate this location. It requires a lot of work to be made functional, and buying quite a few tiles
 
If Rome is a production city, where would you put the Encampment? (Assuming high production means you want to build your units there if possible).

Since woods only give + 1/2 for holy sites, you could forego the holy site and build Encampment there, or..

Build the Encampment across the river (east) from the Industrial District. Together with the Commercial District this would give another +1 to the Industrial, and make it even with the secondary location. I would probably prefer this option together with the original Industrial District location. However, tactical considerations, where is adjacent civ for example, may move the Encampment as it helps with city defense.
 
The description says +2 for each adjacent river. It might be that you can get +4 if they are 2 different rivers, but the previews have showed that you don't get +4 from being adjacent to 2 tiles of the same river.

Yes, I noticed this today watching in Marbozir's Kongo game. The tool tip denotes +2 for each adjacent river, which I read as each adjacent river edge but perhaps it is each unique river systems.
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for giggles:

Spoiler :
upload_2016-10-15_19-9-41.png


If you can't see it, Rome is a wonder spam location.

It really depends on what the rest of the map looks like, but I would:

builder, builder from the point he's at wrt post-scout.

quarry mine wheat (in approx that order) with first builder, which allows faster watermill and possible walls if needed then allows irrigation.

depends on if he finds a natural wonder, then shift one of the first charges to remove the river forest to help chop stonehenge.

The spot on the right side of the river has a natural +4 for the Indust. district, along with a non-hill Ruhr Valley later.

adding in the watermill + granary will help grow the city while still churning production.

First district 'could be' the theatre, though with use of the cheaper hex purchases you may get to the holysite faster.

no campus. it's a waste of space here, so find a place for them elsewhere.
 
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@MadDjinn, since that is a lategame setup, you need to consider housing as well. All those tiles you plan to work allow the city to grow to at least 25 pop, which requires some neighborhoods. Consider making the farm/wonder tile 2W of city a farm, which you later replace with a +6 housing neighborhood thanks to breathtaking appeal created by forest, wonders, theatre and holy site. That's actually +5 appeal when +4 is enough, so you could also replace Stonehenge with another +6 housing neighborhood, in case you build SH somewhere else, or decide not to build it at all. Two times +6 housing should allow the capital to grow to it's full potential.

Though if one of the wonders you plan to build is the Eiffel Tower, you can slam +6 housing neighborhoods in plenty of different locations.
 
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Here's mine.

Assumption is Ancient Era start, but I've gone somewhat past three districts in planning.
I'm much more confident on order in which I'd make the tile improvements than order of the districts.
There is a plan to buy that wheat 3 tiles away in time.
I've left the rest of the 3rd ring tiles blank as I wasn't sure that they'll be worked as part of Rome or a first ring city.

Holy Site & Commercial are the two earliest things the city does well, so they end up being the first two.
Bath's are cheap to build for Rome; and so I wanted to include a spot for that in every single city in this case most likely 3rd.
The possible world wonder (Colosseum) and therefore the entertainment zone is for Civ flavor
And the city would probably eventually get a Theater as well.

I'd have some other city build the campus as its first district, and given the map, that would be in the South either first or second ring.

Edit: I see references to Encampment; that's not on my inital plan for Rome; some other city would build it early instead, and given what I know of the AI's starting locations, probably my first ring NE city.
 

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Bath's are cheap to build for Rome; and so I wanted to include a spot for that in every single city in this case most likely 3rd.

Good catch on the Bath. All Roman cities should have them, cheap and they don't use up a pop cap district.
 
Go on. Continue. I want to learn.
 
@MadDjinn, since that is a lategame setup, you need to consider housing as well. All those tiles you plan to work allow the city to grow to at least 25 pop, which requires some neighborhoods. Consider making the farm/wonder tile 2W of city a farm, which you later replace with a +6 housing neighborhood thanks to breathtaking appeal created by forest, wonders, theatre and holy site. That's actually +5 appeal when +4 is enough, so you could also replace Stonehenge with another +6 housing neighborhood, in case you build SH somewhere else, or decide not to build it at all. Two times +6 housing should allow the capital to grow to it's full potential.

Though if one of the wonders you plan to build is the Eiffel Tower, you can slam +6 housing neighborhoods in plenty of different locations.

Housing gets dropped on the farms when they need to be replaced. Preferably next to other districts.

I also wasn't thinking about late game. This is just the idea for the early-mid game mainly because we don't know where strategic resources will appear.

One other thought given the decent resource based production is to remove two of the farms near the theatre and replace those with an early entertainment district/colosseum. Then surround Rome with small cities within 6 hexes of the colosseum to give them all amenities for a long time - driving the luxury based amenities out to other main cities. Follow that with industrial districts in every one of the little cities when you get near industrialization. Rome will then be able to handle building a lot of late game wonders buildings etc for the empire.
 
Stone plus choppable woods = StoneHenge :) Between the 2 mines plus 3 Quarries and Industrial District between the Mercury, Stone, Mine x 2 you will have Production. Food is fine, I wouldn't build either a Campus or a Holy site. Campus sux, better off getting a new city. Holy site because you wont need 1 early because you will get a Religion with Stonehenge. In this case i would accelerate early by chopp'n :)

Chop All Woods
Builder Tasks. Stone->Mercury-> Chop(Worker)->Chop(Stonehenge)->Chop(Stonehenge)->Chop(worker)->Farm(wheat)-Farm->Chop(Settler).

Build Queue, Scout, Builder, [Builder, Stonehenge, Builder, Settler(Chop em out as above), Slinger, Warrior, Settler, Trade Route, Granary

1st 3 Districts are Baths, and 2 of Encampment/Industrial/Commerce depending on availability of Iron. Commerce should be early to take advantage of internal trade routes however you might want to go encampment and Industrial District and go stomping with Legions.
Religion will be Scripture, and either Work Ethic or Divine Inspiration(If you havent got a Pantheon by the time you finish Stonehenge). Pantheon will be stone circles.
This capital is primed for a fast start. You will have housing, food and production, early religion and 4 woods to accelerate straight out of the gate. Stonehenge works particularly well with Rome due to the Auto roads, meaning a self spreading religion with Scripture. Prioritise early production and Growth and Work Ethic will take care of the rest :).

edit...Silly Turtle, Legions dont need Iron :blush:
 
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