Indiansmoke
Deity
The tactics thread is getting too long, so lets use this thread for city micro 
City micro
- Thread starter Indiansmoke
- Start date
Indiansmoke
Deity
My capital has grown to size 2 and is making +7 food per turn atm.
It wil grow size 3 in 2 turns and size 4 in another 3 turns.
So I have the following options for fast developement.
1. Grow size 4 and 2 pop slave settler
2. Grow size 3 and 1 pop slave worker
3. Start worker now and 1 pop slave him
4. slave archer next turn and start worker at size 3
Option 1
Settler is 67 hammers...2 pop slave is 40 hammers. At size 4 city will be making 12 per turn towards settler that means that we can have settler 9 turns from now.
Option 2
this will give worker in 6 turns from now
Option 3
This will give worker in 4 turns
Option 4
This will give archer in 2 and worker in 5.
In otions 2-4 settler will come in 10-11 turns from now.
So your input is appreciated...I am thinking about option 4 TBH.
In all options worker will improve second corn.
It wil grow size 3 in 2 turns and size 4 in another 3 turns.
So I have the following options for fast developement.
1. Grow size 4 and 2 pop slave settler
2. Grow size 3 and 1 pop slave worker
3. Start worker now and 1 pop slave him
4. slave archer next turn and start worker at size 3
Option 1
Settler is 67 hammers...2 pop slave is 40 hammers. At size 4 city will be making 12 per turn towards settler that means that we can have settler 9 turns from now.
Option 2
this will give worker in 6 turns from now
Option 3
This will give worker in 4 turns
Option 4
This will give archer in 2 and worker in 5.
In otions 2-4 settler will come in 10-11 turns from now.
So your input is appreciated...I am thinking about option 4 TBH.
In all options worker will improve second corn.
Attachments
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
My SP experience tells me that 1 pop whip of an archer is horrible... though I completly understand MP needs other kind of thinking...
Why are you in such hurry to get that archer? (sorry if it's obvious) your warrior can deal with the scout...
OT: jobe has paused the game with 14 hours left on timer... we got some time to settle this
Why are you in such hurry to get that archer? (sorry if it's obvious) your warrior can deal with the scout...
OT: jobe has paused the game with 14 hours left on timer... we got some time to settle this
Indiansmoke
Deity
My SP experience tells me that 1 pop whip of an archer is horrible... though I completly understand MP needs other kind of thinking...
Why are you in such hurry to get that archer? (sorry if it's obvious) your warrior can deal with the scout...
OT: jobe has paused the game with 14 hours left on timer... we got some time to settle this
Whiping the archer will give me 14 hammers overflow towards worker, the extra pop from not whipping will only give me 1 hammer per turn towards worker since I will be working unimproved tile...so by whipping I get both archer and worker faster.
Also the archer is going strainght into enemy land to harash.
Munro
Deity
I would go for option 4. Get the archer out ASAP to reinforce the choke, then whip the worker at size 2 or 3. Then chop out the settler for the desert site (corn / horse) for immortals..
Basically I would whip any pop that aren't going to be using power tiles, and go for a 2nd worker before the settler. (You can then chop the settler, and a 2nd city isn't much use without workers to improve it anyway).
Basically I would whip any pop that aren't going to be using power tiles, and go for a 2nd worker before the settler. (You can then chop the settler, and a 2nd city isn't much use without workers to improve it anyway).
Indiansmoke
Deity
I went for option 3 after seing the horse north of the capital...that does not mean I cannot cahnge it next turn of course.
The screen is after ending trun.
As you can see I am making 8 per turn towards worker that means I can have him in 5 (4 now) without slaving. It is the fastest option of them all to get second worker out and hence the faster way to 2 workers and settler.
In 3 turns I will be able to slave Worker will be 24/40 and with slave I will get the worker 1 turn sooner and an overflow of 10 hammers (with city to grow size 2 in 2 turns).
Overflow will go to settler (I think) and I will grow finising archer and will use both workers to chop settler. Plan is to get the horse connected ASAP and get immortals out.
The screen is after ending trun.
As you can see I am making 8 per turn towards worker that means I can have him in 5 (4 now) without slaving. It is the fastest option of them all to get second worker out and hence the faster way to 2 workers and settler.
In 3 turns I will be able to slave Worker will be 24/40 and with slave I will get the worker 1 turn sooner and an overflow of 10 hammers (with city to grow size 2 in 2 turns).
Overflow will go to settler (I think) and I will grow finising archer and will use both workers to chop settler. Plan is to get the horse connected ASAP and get immortals out.
Attachments
Indiansmoke
Deity
I see generally you don't appriciate the power of slaving.
Ras should have slaved the worker last turn IMO. That would give 20 hammers, enough to finish skirmisher next turn. Growing and working unimproved tiles is not good in my experience.
Munro the same, growing and slaving the worker would give worker faster and more hammers.
Dan the same.
Is there any logic behind not slaving? Can you please explain it?
Ras should have slaved the worker last turn IMO. That would give 20 hammers, enough to finish skirmisher next turn. Growing and working unimproved tiles is not good in my experience.
Munro the same, growing and slaving the worker would give worker faster and more hammers.
Dan the same.
Is there any logic behind not slaving? Can you please explain it?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Hehe I am not even in slavery... I nearly posted about it... I should have I guess As I need to go into anarchy, I think it's best to wait for the end of the worker now.. do you agree?
Btw, my original plan didn't include whips and nobody spoke then... thus I was under the impression it was OK... but please, do correct me
As I need to go into anarchy, I think it's best to wait for the end of the worker now.. do you agree?Btw, my original plan didn't include whips and nobody spoke then... thus I was under the impression it was OK... but please, do correct me
Indiansmoke
Deity
Hehe I am not even in slavery... I nearly posted about it... I should have I guess
Btw, my original plan didn't include whips and nobody spoke then... thus I was under the impression it was OK... but please, do correct me
Ahhhh...did you go into slvery this turn? If not mistake..since you would have gotten worker same turn AND get the hammers from slaving.
Slaving is only 6 turns of unhapiness in quick...so this early it is very important that you use it to maximize the hammers you get every turn. An uniproved tile to give you 20 hammers you need 20 turns, but you can get that in 1 turn from slavery.
In your case Ras, if you went into slavery this turn and slaved next, you would get worker in 2 and skrimisher in 3....now you will get worker in 2 and skirmisher in 5 (as you need to go to slavery).
That is 2 turns later skirmisher for no reason.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I am afraid it will be the case IS... 
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
OK, will switch next turn and whip.
I am thinking second worker should move on the other pig to gain a movement point (as both pastures are on hills) compared to the solution where both workers work together.
I am thinking second worker should move on the other pig to gain a movement point (as both pastures are on hills) compared to the solution where both workers work together.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Improving pasture is 3 turns in quick...which means that it will be done by the time second worker gets there...hense no point sending both workers on same hill. In this setup every worker turn counts so you need to be carefull about moving 2 workers to do a single task, when they both lose movement by doing it (ie forest or hill).
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
okee dookie... that was my concern so perfect 
Munro
Deity
Well, the worker only has 19/40 hammers so can't be 1 pop slaved next turn - so it's still 3 turns either way... and slaving now means 1 turn slower to size 2, size 3 and size 4 (all working improved tiles until size 4, i.e. +3+3+1 = 7 lost food / hammers). Whip gives +20h, so is still up 13h, but then is 1 turn behind getting to size 4. And since we'll be producing +15f/h per turn at size 4, that means the early whip scenario could actually be slower to produce the first settler (assuming we 2 pop whip it).
In fact, it's worse than that because the overflow from the first whip can't even go towards the settler without adding a second turn of delay in getting to size 2, 3, 4 - meaning now 14 hammers lost to delayed growth and 2 turns delay for the 2pop whip ... (or alternatively let the overflow go to something else and lose another 14h in addition to the 7h lost for delayed growth... now we are 1hammer down and still 1 turn late to the 2 pop settler whip).
So it depends... the +20h is obviously powerful, but it does cost 14 food (assuming whip at size 2) so without a granary it is not necessarily that amazing if you would have been working improved tiles anyway and / or are trying to optimize time to the next worker or settler (since the overflow can't be easily diverted without incurring additional penalties for delayed growth)...
Indiansmoke
Deity
I did not notice that worker was 19/40, if it was 20/40 things would be different...as it is now it works almost the same
Scenario 1
Beginning of turn – End of turn
Turn 0 – start archer – grow size 2 food 4/16 archer 2/16
Turn 1 – resume worker – worker 28/40
Turn 2 – slave worker – worker ready 16 hammers overflow
Turn 3 – start settler – settler 26/66
Turn 4 – resume archer – food 10/14 archer 4/16
Turn 5 – archer – grow size 2 food 2/16 archer 6/16
Turn 5 – archer – food 11/16 archer 8/16
Turn 6 – archer – grow size 3 food 4/18 archer 10/16
Turn 7 – archer working 2 farms and a grass forest – food 13/18 archer 13/16
Turn 8 – archer – grow size 4 food 4/20 archer ready
Turn 9 – 2 pop slave settler – settler ready 9 hammers overflow.
Scenario 2
Turn 0 – worker – worker 27/40
Turn 1 – worker – worker 36/40
Turn 2 – worker – worker ready 5 hammers overflow
Turn 3 – start archer – grow size 2 food 4/14 archer 7/16
Turn 4 – archer – food 11/14 archer 9/16
Turn 5 – archer – grow size 3 food 4/18 archer 11/16
Turn 5 – archer working 2 farms and a grass forest – food 13/18 archer 14/16
Turn 6 – archer – grow size 4 food 4/20 archer ready 1 hammer overflow
Turn 7 – start settler working 2 farms a mine and 1 unimproved– settler 14/66
Turn 8 – settler – settler 28/66
Turn 9 – 2 pop slave settler – settler ready 11 hammers overflow.
So it is about the same but in scenario 2 you get the archer faster and 2 hammers more overflow
Scenario 1
Beginning of turn – End of turn
Turn 0 – start archer – grow size 2 food 4/16 archer 2/16
Turn 1 – resume worker – worker 28/40
Turn 2 – slave worker – worker ready 16 hammers overflow
Turn 3 – start settler – settler 26/66
Turn 4 – resume archer – food 10/14 archer 4/16
Turn 5 – archer – grow size 2 food 2/16 archer 6/16
Turn 5 – archer – food 11/16 archer 8/16
Turn 6 – archer – grow size 3 food 4/18 archer 10/16
Turn 7 – archer working 2 farms and a grass forest – food 13/18 archer 13/16
Turn 8 – archer – grow size 4 food 4/20 archer ready
Turn 9 – 2 pop slave settler – settler ready 9 hammers overflow.
Scenario 2
Turn 0 – worker – worker 27/40
Turn 1 – worker – worker 36/40
Turn 2 – worker – worker ready 5 hammers overflow
Turn 3 – start archer – grow size 2 food 4/14 archer 7/16
Turn 4 – archer – food 11/14 archer 9/16
Turn 5 – archer – grow size 3 food 4/18 archer 11/16
Turn 5 – archer working 2 farms and a grass forest – food 13/18 archer 14/16
Turn 6 – archer – grow size 4 food 4/20 archer ready 1 hammer overflow
Turn 7 – start settler working 2 farms a mine and 1 unimproved– settler 14/66
Turn 8 – settler – settler 28/66
Turn 9 – 2 pop slave settler – settler ready 11 hammers overflow.
So it is about the same but in scenario 2 you get the archer faster and 2 hammers more overflow
Indiansmoke
Deity
The Persian situation
I am 8/14 food making + 6 food per turn and archer is 11/16
1 worker has already moved in forest to chop and second will move in forest next turn.
So here is the current plan calculating from next turn
Turn 1 – archer – grow size 2 food 0/16 archer 12/16
Turn 2 – settler – settler 10/66
Turn 3 – settler chop 1 ready– settler 34/66
Turn 4 - settler chop 2 ready first worker half road – settler 58/66
Turn 5 - settler both workers road - settler ready 2 hammers overflow
Turn 6 – archer - food 9/16 archer 15/16
Turn 7 – archer, settle 2ndcity workers improve horse– grow size 3 food 2/18 archer ready 1 hammer overflow
Turn 8 – archer – food 11/18 archer 4/16
Turn 9 - start immortal – grow size 4 food 2/20 immortal 3/20
Turn 10- slave immortal 1 pop – food 11/18 immortal ready 6 hammers overflow
I have calculated chops 14 hammers each for this..not sure it is accurate though.
I am 8/14 food making + 6 food per turn and archer is 11/16
1 worker has already moved in forest to chop and second will move in forest next turn.
So here is the current plan calculating from next turn
Turn 1 – archer – grow size 2 food 0/16 archer 12/16
Turn 2 – settler – settler 10/66
Turn 3 – settler chop 1 ready– settler 34/66
Turn 4 - settler chop 2 ready first worker half road – settler 58/66
Turn 5 - settler both workers road - settler ready 2 hammers overflow
Turn 6 – archer - food 9/16 archer 15/16
Turn 7 – archer, settle 2ndcity workers improve horse– grow size 3 food 2/18 archer ready 1 hammer overflow
Turn 8 – archer – food 11/18 archer 4/16
Turn 9 - start immortal – grow size 4 food 2/20 immortal 3/20
Turn 10- slave immortal 1 pop – food 11/18 immortal ready 6 hammers overflow
I have calculated chops 14 hammers each for this..not sure it is accurate though.
Attachments
Indiansmoke
Deity
Chops are indeed 13 hammers...it does not change anything in my plan (fortunattely) as it is just enough to get settler out in 4 turns...this means I can expect to get first immortal out 9 turns from now...
Indiansmoke
Deity
Indiansmoke
Deity
So second city is settled...
Since the location is not that good, I will try to get the most out of food sharing.
Here is the plan for my immortal rush.
This turn - get archer end of turn in capital and start archer in horse city.
Turn 1 - horse is improved start immortal in both cities, capital grows size 3 end of turn
Turn 2 - 1 worker stays goes in tundra hill forest next to new city to chop, the other goes to capital forest to chop, capital slaves immortal (gets immortal end of turn) horse city grows size 2 end of turn
Turn 3 - capital starts new immortal, horse city slaves immortal, workers chop (end of turn get second immortal)
Turn 4 - capital slaves immortal, both chops ready (end of turn 2 more immortals)
Turn 5 - another immortal in capital after end of turn from overflow, start roading iron.
Turn 6 - capital starts immortal, horse city slaves immortal
Turn 7 capital slaves immortal, horse city makes another one.
So end of 7 turns from now I will have 7 immortals and we should have priesthood by then to start Oracle.
The question is what to do with the 7 immortals? Do we go for babylon...where they will be expecting me...or do we go for Egypt to deny them getting horse?
Since the location is not that good, I will try to get the most out of food sharing.
Here is the plan for my immortal rush.
This turn - get archer end of turn in capital and start archer in horse city.
Turn 1 - horse is improved start immortal in both cities, capital grows size 3 end of turn
Turn 2 - 1 worker stays goes in tundra hill forest next to new city to chop, the other goes to capital forest to chop, capital slaves immortal (gets immortal end of turn) horse city grows size 2 end of turn
Turn 3 - capital starts new immortal, horse city slaves immortal, workers chop (end of turn get second immortal)
Turn 4 - capital slaves immortal, both chops ready (end of turn 2 more immortals)
Turn 5 - another immortal in capital after end of turn from overflow, start roading iron.
Turn 6 - capital starts immortal, horse city slaves immortal
Turn 7 capital slaves immortal, horse city makes another one.
So end of 7 turns from now I will have 7 immortals and we should have priesthood by then to start Oracle.
The question is what to do with the 7 immortals? Do we go for babylon...where they will be expecting me...or do we go for Egypt to deny them getting horse?
