City of no food resorces

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by politude, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. politude

    politude Chieftain

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    Hi, I've been playing civ for about 2 years now and I'm still a newbie who plays recreationally on those boring afternoons at home. Today I began a game that is just wonderful with the Greeks (Pericles) Athens gets 30 hammers per turn, Sparta gets like 25 and after those two cities I created a high wealth city called Corinth, The city has 2 sets of fur, 2 sets of silver and a set of marble, the only thing it does not have is food, hence it is stagnant at level 2. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding this city?

     
  2. Quotey

    Quotey Emperor

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    Stop building the Granary, set it to a barracks and let it slow build units for the rest of eternity. The city is completely worthless, a waste of money. Tundra cities with no food resources are only worth it if they're coastl and it is midgame.
     
  3. v8_mark

    v8_mark Prince

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    Not altogether useless, because it nets you those resources. As for other things though, yeah, it's not going to do very much. All cities must have food to do what they need to do.
     
  4. The Rook

    The Rook King

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    Nice city! All those resources will stand your empire in good stead. Could benefit from a food corp though.
     
  5. Quotey

    Quotey Emperor

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    With a food corp it will be too late for the city to make any difference. It is the large specialist or cottage cities that power your research then- not a 22commerce city. They are only very good in the early game.
     
  6. digitCruncher

    digitCruncher Emperor

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    Occasionally, there are cities that, no matter what happens, you CANNOT make it grow.

    As stated, either make it build a barracks and spam units, or make it build wealth.

    But... it does grab hold of some resources... it isn't a total waste, just one that could probably have waited a bit.

    Oh, and finally, to prevent this happening again, this is what you should do.

    Count the food output of each tile, minus two (so a grassland tile yields 0, a plains tile yeilds -1, and a floodplains yields 1). If you come across a resource, count the food output of that tile, with the appropiate improvement on it, and subtract two (so a corn tile, which yeilds 6 food on grassland, non-riverside, counts as 4).

    The number you get means something IMPORTANT:

    If the final number is NEGATIVE: Multiply by -1 (take away the minus sign) and that is how many farms / windmills you will need.
    If the final number is ZERO: You don't need any farms / windmills.
    If the final number is POSITIVE: This city is a prime candidate for a Great Person farm (A city that runs lots of specilists). If you already have one, and it yeilds a higher number, its probably best not to add any farms, but if you don't want to run a specilist economy, then you should add a number of workshops equal to the final number.

    With that in mind, and once you think you have grasped it, use these tips:

    After civil service, if you can make a farm-chain to any resource that is farms (eg. Rice / Corn etc.), then that tile will yeild one more food, meaning you don't have to build another farm. If the tile is already riverside, then increase the food output of that tile by 1.

    Remember that some resources give extra food, something that I missed. Examples are: Spices (+1 with plantation), Wine (+1 with Winery), and Sugar (+1 with Plantation).

    Coastal tiles count as 0 if the city is coastal, but -1 otherwise (Because, with a lighthouse, they yeild 2 food). Fresh water tiles (lakes) count as 1 if the tile is coastal,and 0 otherwise.

    Don't count tundra tiles (unless they are forested, or riverside and you are going to COTTAGE them... farmed Tundra is pathetic), desert tiles, peaks, desert tiles with low outputs (eg. Stone on desert), snow, or ice in the final tally, as you won't be using them anyway. These tiles you will never work, count as 0.

    Using that, the final value of the city you just built is something like -5 (meaning you will need to build 5 farms. But you cant, as everything is tundra, and isn't riverside!!)

    Note: Deer gives +3 food or something. Build a camp on the deer.
     
  7. The Rook

    The Rook King

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    The city would more than return its investment with a food corp, if it builds a courthouse now it might be ready for corporations. :p

    Cities like this one aren't very good for research at any stage of the game, the real benefit is in the resources.
     
  8. nbcman

    nbcman King

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    If the resources were that critical, I would have built a city between the iron and the silver on the coastline to the east (1 NE + 1 E of the current city) for silver and iron and a second city 1 SW + 1 S to get the marble and furs. The second city would have at least one grassland (2 :food: ) tile to work plus some plains forests. But at this stage of the game, I would have only settled in the tundra/ice if I needed the iron.
     
  9. semirami

    semirami The Wolf

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    You can settle great merchants there. This is the only way to grow the city before corporations. It may look like a waste, that early in the game, but with 2 settled great merchants you can work a great tile. Later found Sushi, or Cereal in this city and build Wall Street there and maybe National park.
     
  10. The Rook

    The Rook King

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    :crazyeye:
    :thumbsup:
     
  11. Quotey

    Quotey Emperor

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    In the early game (assuming the city owuld have had food) 22 commerce is nothing to sneer at.
     
  12. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

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    Build a courthouse there to cut maintenance costs (these will rise as you found / capture more cities) as soon as possible. Other than that just slowly churn out units and forget about improving it.
     
  13. The Rook

    The Rook King

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    Where are you getting this 22 commerce from? And where is the food?

    At size 1 the city could work a fur for 4 commerce, giving a total of 5. Then 20 odd turns later it could stagnate at size 2 and work a second fur for 4 commerce, making a new total of 9.

    There should be far greater priorities in the early game than settling a city with the potential to produce 9 commerce. However, this city has 4 happy resources, and 2 strategic ones counting the iron outside the BFC. I would sooner take this than 5 (but potentially 9) commerce.

    Edit: Actually there is another 2 commerce with the trade, though with maintenance that would be practically canceled out. I missed a third fur just outside the BFC too blah blah...
     
  14. Quotey

    Quotey Emperor

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    I said a city with 2 silver, 2 fur that had food to work them is great in the early game, and that it's subpar in the late game, and would not infact return its investment.
     
  15. Jerrymander

    Jerrymander Epistemologist

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    Get someone to declare war on you and get them to take the city off your hands. Food is more important than all other resources. No matter what.
     
  16. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    OK - this is a really bad site to go for early - it just doesn't have enough food to become productive, and you can't fix this until much later in the game. In the future this kind of site should be a last resort - a space to fill once all the main cities are in place.

    I'd say build a courthouse and wait for a food corporation (put a branch there - not the HQ as it would take forever to get stuff like Wall Street in place). Asuming a decent number of resources you should be able to get the furs, silver and probably the hills in use as well (if you put windmills on them).

    This city could still be well worth having if the game runs well past the arrival of Sushi. With that it can be a decent production city and throw in some commerce from the silver. I've had sites as food poor and got cities to size 10-12 that were quite useful in the late game.

    In the short term it isn't costing you much maintenance, and it secures a few resources (which have got to be worth the few gold the city costs - would you trade say 5gpt for silver and furs?)
     
  17. digitCruncher

    digitCruncher Emperor

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    I don't know about that... but @The Rook: There is also a un-camped deer that could be worked, and that MIGHT mean that he could work both furs, and BOTH SILVER deposits, which would PROBABLY get to 22 commerce. Maybe. But I think, even with the deer, he could only work 1 silver. (And, if fur doesn't give +1 food, which I think it doesn't, then it may be worth considering working the deer and both silver, instead of the deer, both furs, and 1 silver, as the silver yeilds some insane commerce bonuses :p)

    [Edit] And the AI trades out the nose for luxury resources it doesn't have... I am currently netting 16 GPT for each luxury resource (if the AI provides the GPT, which is rare). Thus, this city could grab (potentially) +4 :) in all cities, with a market and forge, as well as 32 GPT from the other civs, or even more!! Maybe [/Edit]
     
  18. Levgre

    Levgre King

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    Wrong, with civil service he could chain irrigate over to those tundras for 2 food a piece, and windmill the mines for one food each.

    Once he gets biology the city will be able to grow to a decent size.
     
  19. Levgre

    Levgre King

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    but yeah, you should have built it on the shore, perhaps the northern silver. You still would have grabbed all the resources once your borders expanded, and the city would have been able to grow a little.
     
  20. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    Er... where's this deer? I can see two furs tiles and two silver, but that's it for resources. If he had a deer, it would give 4F with a camp, and so allow working of the two silver tiles. Then the city would be stagnated at size 3 working the deer and the two silver tiles (or you could go to size four and use two furs and one silver) which wouldn't be too bad for commerce. Unfortunately there's no deer, so the city will have to wait for Sushi.
     

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