City Penalties by Map Size

[hai 1]

What are the exact penalties of acquiring additional cities, and how are they affected by map size? It is also relevant to list any distinctions between settled cities vs puppets vs annexed.

You can copy paste this format if you'd like (I will be continually updating it as input is received):

Duel: U-3 C-10%S-5
Tiny: U-3 C-10% S-5
Small: U-3 C-10% S-5
Standard: U-3 C-10% S-5%
Large: U-2.4? C-7.5% S-3.75%
Huge: U- C-5% S-2.5%

U- Additional unhappiness per city (double for puppets and triple for annexed?)
C- Additional culture cost of social policies per additional cities (does not include puppets for all map sizes?)
S- Additional science needed for techs per additional city (includes puppets for all map sizes?)
Feel free to add any other factors affected by additional cities.

Notes:
Cost of techs goes up with map size: "For Duel through Small, the cost is 100% of the base tech cost, Standard is 110%, Large is 120% and Huge is 130%. Makes for a slower teching game on Large and Huge maps."- Browd

Contributors: Browd, Jaybe, and adwcta

 

[adwcta]

standard: U- 3 c- 15% s-5%

c - 10%

 

[hai 1]

At the very least it'd be nice to know exactly how the culture and science penalties change in large and huge maps. I think for science its something like 3% for large and 1.5% for huge, making going wide much more viable.

 

[Jaybe]

Large Map:
U = I think there's no change for city; for population it is reduced by 20% from standard. I'll have to update after I get back to the game today.
EDIT: It IS reduced by 20% per city, not for population.

C =7%

S =3%
BTW, the original cost (from the pedia) is based on ZERO cities.

 

[Kung-Fu Kitty]

At the very least it'd be nice to know exactly how the culture and science penalties change in large and huge maps. I think for science its something like 3% for large and 1.5% for huge, making going wide much more viable.

I was playing a huge map last night, and it said 2% tech penalty for add'l city.

 

[joncnunn]

The city penalties are the same on Small, Tiny, and Duel which they are on standard.

It's only large & huge in which they are different.

 

[Cromagnus]

The city penalties are the same on Small, Tiny, and Duel which they are on standard.

It's only large & huge in which they are different.

It's humorous that Duel and Standard have the same penalty... and I find it even more funny that they reduced the penalty on Large+... clearly the devs recognized that this change impacted Wide strategies. And yet they didn't do anything to compensate in the Liberty tree. Instead they added food trade routes, the number of which cap out, benefiting small empires more than large. As if Tradition was weak to begin with. Sheesh.

 

[Browd]

I was playing a huge map last night, and it said 2% tech penalty for add'l city.

The per-city penalty is 5% on standard maps and smaller, 3.75% on Large maps and 2.5% on Huge maps.

See C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Sid Meier's Civilization V\Assets\DLC\Expansion2\Gameplay\XML\GameInfo\CIV5 Worlds.xml and find the lines labeled <NumCitiesTechCostMod>

 

[hai 1]

Once the chart is complete, it might be fun to have a theorycrafting discussion about what the optimal setup becomes with the variance in additional city penalties between map sizes. Maybe we will even find that the game is better balanced on large or even huge maps, as going wide becomes much more feasible and I doubt it would be overpowered compared to going tall. After all, as Cromagnus pointed out, it is far more than the penalties holding wide empires back.

Also, discussing what civs, sp's, etc might benefit from larger maps could be interesting.

 

[Browd]

Culture cost increase by city is 10% on standard and smaller maps, 7.5% on large (not 7%, as the OP currently states) and 5% on huge.

Note also that the research costs of individual techs also vary by map size. For Duel through Small, the cost is 100% of the base tech cost, Standard is 110%, Large is 120% and Huge is 130%. Makes for a slower teching game on Large and Huge maps.

 

[hai 1]

Awesome contributions so far, thanks fellas.