City Placement -- Where Would You Place It?

[Antilogic]

The basic question I have is: where would you place this city? Take a look at this screenshot:



The game recommends site (B), as you can see from the screenshot, a locale that will create an overall mediocre city, but with passable production from three mines and the copper (food from the pigs). However, I was leaning towards site (A), which sacrifices the copper mine in exchange for whales and silver--overall focus would be more on commerce for that city locale.

I was just going to build on site (A) and forget the copper mine, but now I'm thinking. I believe site (A) to be a better location, but this lowly Prince/Monarch player could use some advice from the higher-level guys on this forum. This also could be instructive for some of my fellow Civfanatics who are trying to learn how to place cities and dotmap (I just use the in-game labels), so I figured I would post it here. You may notice the second city location towards the northeast--I'm currently in the process of grabbing that location as well, but the "first" location, wherever it may be, is likely to be of greater value and of lesser maintenance cost, hence its earlier founding.

 

[Defiance]

You calling Monarch players lowyly!!

This "lowly" Monarch player thinks you should listen to the computer..

 

[[db]Perseforis]

I'd be grabbing site 2 first as Cyrus is a higher probability to grab this spot than the other one (before you get the chance to that is!)...but with open borders with him it may not make a difference. Still, I tend to listen to my inclinations here.

I think your gut is right about 1A over 1B.

The negatives (of grabbing A vs B).

1. Loss of copper production bonus.
2. Actually 1 is pretty much it if you're talking in relative terms

The positives:

1. Greater city centre production on top of copper, which can be handy, particularly short term.
2. Less overlap with Cuzco (from three squares to one)
3. Gain silver and whales much quicker - particularly if you don't have access to these resources that's a wonderful thing.

That's just a brief analysis without going into a #'s of this or that type of plot...but for me I'd be going with your gut.

 

[Boom22]

I noticed something Cyrus may want to explain at your expense. Be careful. The copper is the way to go.

 

[slobberinbear]

This Noble-Monarch player (depending on my mood ) hates settling on resources but hates big city overlap even more. Site 1A ftw!

 

[thresh74]

I think city 2 should be settle first. It is very decent place. Otherwise cyrus will grab it. Then settle city 1A. You lose copper mine, but gain silver, whale and cottagable grassland. And less overlapping.

 

[Indiansmoke]

City A to get the fish

 

[Belisar]

Regarding placement of city 1:
Both sites will never be production powerhouses so it's only consistant to use it as a commerce center.

City A is clearly the way to go.
Generally speking, water tiles are not desirable but you are financial, therefore the coast tiles are acceptable (ozean tiles are very bad)
By taking A instead of B you actually lose nothing but gain commerce.
The production loss of the copper is (nearly) compensated by the silver mine, the city tile itself and the whale.
Add less overlap, only 2 ozean tiles (+ the whale) and the 2 happy ressources and you are set.


On a side note: I your current situation (although it is hard to tell from a screenshot) if you have no metal (iron or copper) City 1 is more important than city 2. You seem to be boxed in by the AI so unless you can back it up with military, city 2 is worthless at the moment.
Better to take it from the AI.

 

[Wimsey]

1. Greater city centre production on top of copper, which can be handy, particularly short term.

I'm sorry I have to be pedantic, but he won't get any extra production in the city square. (He would if it was a plains rather than grassland, though).
As for what I would do, I'd reload the initial autosave, settle Cuzco 1N of its current location, and place the new city 1N of the copper. Cuzco would then get the pigs and lose one of the clams, but this doesn't matter as you will have to build a city on one of the small islands to get all the sea resources anyway.

Actually, I consider such an approach cheating, and as much as I hate cheating, I also hate to have anything but optimal city placement
If you feel history is unreloadable I'd say go for A.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Personally, I wouldn't much like the idea of choosing between 1a and 1b before the tiles around the silver are revealed.

I would probably put the city two tiles east of 1b (unless I really needed a seaport for ship building, in which case I would use 1b).

 

[madscientist]

Get the copper first with city 1B. City 2 I would settle 2 east of the silver, if the Persian get's it first so be it. I assume you are going to be taking him out anyway to get the horses.

Some advice from a fellow lowly Monarch player.

 

[jray]

I'm sorry I have to be pedantic, but he won't get any extra production in the city square.

[EDIT: I was incorrectly disagreeing with this. Silly me!]

 

[LiberiGlacialis]

I'd play "A". You sit on the copper, and can get the Whales, Sliver, and the Pigs. You also don't have as much overlap with that near-by city (only one tile!). Of course, you have that peak in there, and the tundra tiles up north....

Persia snagging "2" is the problem, though....

 

[Wimsey]

The criterion is that if the tile stripped of its features (that is, forest, flood plains, etc... but leave the resource extras intact) contains anything above 2F, 1H, and 1G, then the city keeps the extra.

That is correct, but the tile in question does not contain above 2F 1H 1G.

 

[Antilogic]

Some clarification on the game position here:

I actually have a second source of metal--look at the very bottom of the screenshot, and you will see, within an off-screen city radius, that I have some copper. You can see it through the interface. Also, I'm already stationing axemen and spearmen, produced in that off-screen city, along my borders...I'm planning to hit Cyrus quickly. I'm getting Mathematics specifically for Construction, and then I'll be waging war. My continent doesn't have anybody else on it, although I have discovered Charlemagne and Alexander in the south...I'll deal with them later.

Cyrus himself has settled another city in the southeast recently, so unless he already has another settler in production (I'm about to whip one in my capital and whip that forge you see in production), I'll be able to beat him to it. Also, I am prioritizing site 1 first because there are more resources at stake--site 2 pretty much gives sheep. I'd rather have the whales, pigs, copper (to prevent Cyrus from getting copper, he only has horses), and the silver.

I probably should have made this a poll: vote for settling 1A, 1B, 2, or other first. I noticed somebody mentioned a site two tiles east of 1B...that gives pretty uncomfortable overlap with my capital. I tend to overlap 1-3 tiles, but never that many (6, I think, if you place it there). Is that a strategy I should be looking into changing?

@jray: I'm not exactly sure how to interpret your statement, but I believe that city center will receive 2 food, 1 hammer, and 1 commerce.

Also, on the difficultly level: I was just being humble, guys, no reason to take offense. I know there are Emperor players and up on this forum, and I would call them the experts in the game.

 

[jray]

Perhaps you could plop a city 2E of your "City 2" marker and build cultural buildings there to steal Cyrus's horses (or try to time the founding of a religion soon after you settle that city, to make it likely to be founded there... how about popping a GS to lightbulb philosophy?). This city would be fairly lousy early-mid game, but it might make a good National Park city later.

Or settle at 1A first. In BtS the AI is much more likely to beeline halfway across the map to settle at a strategic resource, and you won't close Cyrus off at "City 2" unless you build culture there very quickly. 1A is definitely better than 1B. In any case, I definitely wouldn't settle at "City 2" first. You'll probably have time to grab that sheep later.

 

[jray]

That is correct, but the tile in question does not contain above 2F 1H 1G.

Lol, you're right... I guess I'm seeing double this morning... original post corrected.

 

[Orion071]

I don't get it. What's so great about site 2? The Sheep barely gives you enough food to work the hills, and it has 2 extra Tundra and 3 Ocean tiles. Let Cyrus have it. You can take it from him later.

Site A FTW. Silver and Whales and less city overlap? It's not even a question.

Here's my biggest problem. Why on earth are you not using all 3 Clam tiles??? You're Financial even! You're using the farmed floodplains (4F,1C), but not 2 different 4F,3C tiles? Get those workboats out there!

 

[jray]

Here's my biggest problem. Why on earth are you not using all 3 Clam tiles??? You're Financial even! You're using the farmed floodplains (4F,1C), but not 2 different 4F,3C tiles? Get those workboats out there!

I was thinking the same thing. He could be done with Mathematics and chopping Wonders at incredible rates by now!

(Off-topic, I've never seen anyone local on here before-- I live & work in Cary!)

 

[Wimsey]

Introducing another alternative:
What about settling 1N of the copper, and grabbing the pigs with a city on the island right west from Cuzco? Although neither city will be extremely good, there will be little overlap and you can grab all the resources. I think I'd do this, as I really feel bad about settling on top of resources.