City Production Questions

[MosheLevi]

I am a little confused about the pace of Production growth in some of my cities.

My capital has 200 Production while the rest of my cities have 100 or less production despite the fact that some of them are equal in size to the capital (after 450 turns)
I started the game in the middle ages with 3 settlers and I built 3 cities almost at the same time, yet two cities are lagging with their production.

I built all the production buildings in my big cities and I balanced the tiles equally (food, production, cottages, and so on) for all of them.

Very often I also notice that production goes down in some cities even when there is no starvation or unhappiness/unhealthiness.

So I am wondering what could cause that.

Other than building production buildings and emphasize on production tiles what else needs to be done to increase production?

Any other tips on how to increase the Production in cities?

 

[nbcman]

Maybe you are running Bureaucracy civic? That increases and production in your capital by 50%.

Also, do you have more raw hammers in your capital such as iron/copper mines that you don't have at your other 2 cities?

 

[MosheLevi]

No, I am running Democracy.

I didn’t pay attention to the number of raw hammers, but even then the difference is too big.

Could it be something else?

Does 100 production in cities after 450 turns is considered reasonable, or should it be higher?

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Could you maybe post a save game so we could have a look? It might be a bit easier to answer your questions that way.

 

[nbcman]

@MosheLevi

I agree with Lemon Merchant that a save game would be useful.

But Democracy is not a civic. Democracy enables Universal Suffrage (Government Civic) and Emancipation (Labor Civic). Bureaucracy is a Legal Civic that can be used with any other Government, Labor, Religion, or Economy Civic that you have access to.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Very often I also notice that production goes down in some cities even when there is no starvation or unhappiness/unhealthiness.

So I am wondering what could cause that.

I forgot about this. Your actual hammer display in your city screen will change depending on how much carry-over you have from the previous build, IIRC. One turn you'll see X number of hammers, the next turn might show X+7 or X-12 hammers as the numbers compute. It took me a while to figure this out, but if you mouse over the actual hammer icon on the city screen, it will show you all of the production count (and any production bonuses for buildings, etc.) for that turn, which includes any carry-over. If I have this figured out right, the actual raw production level is the amount of hammers shown , minus the carry-over value.

I hope that helps, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[UWHabs]

The number shown is the total you'll get towards that building, with all the bonuses applied to it. So if you get 50 base hammers, have a forge, are in Organized religion, have 20 hammers carry-over, and are a protective leader building a wall with stone, it'll show:
(50 + 20) * (1 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 1 + 1) = 70*3.5 = 245.
The previous turn, it may have only shown 50*1.25 = 62 (if you were building a unit).

To increase production, you can vary your civics. Some (like Universal Suffrage) will give more raw hammers on some squares. Some (OR, State Property in BtS, Police State) will give modifiers depending on various aspects. Some techs (guilds, chemistry) will give extra hammers to workshops. The best way is to run what helps you the most, and just vary the squares you use (and what you build on them). I've had some amazing production in cities running almost all cottages, and amazing production in other cities working only farms, mines, and workshops.

 

[MosheLevi]

Here is the saved game file.

Tel-Aviv is the city with the most production.
Most other cities are way behind in production output.

This is my first "serious" Civ 4 game.

Please let me know what you think and what I should do to increase production in other cities.

 

[nbcman]

1. You are running Bureaucracy civic-but Tel Aviv is not your capital so there is not a production multiplier for that.

2. Tel Aviv's base hammers are 46. But you have numerous production multipliers in that city. You have a factory (+25%) with power (+50%), and a forge (+25%). You are producing military units which further increases your production due to the Heroic Epic (+100%) and a Military Academy (+25%).

3. Your other cities are OK-but you are having some problems with unhappiness. For example, Ber Sheva has 4 unhappy citizens which results in that city not working a railroaded copper mine which is costing you 6 base hammers at that city.

4. Yafo has nearly the same number of base hammers (45) but there are hill tiles that are windmilled. If you want more hammers/production, change your cities windmills to mines and railroad the tiles that you have mines in for +1 .

Since you have excess food at some of your cities(cities are still growing), you could convert some of the windmills to mines and farms to workshops. The excess food is not helping much since many of your cities are at or above your happiness limits for those cities.

 

[MosheLevi]

Thank you nbcman for looking into the save file.

1. You are running Bureaucracy civic-but Tel Aviv is not your capital.

Looks like I have problems keeping track of what I am doing, lol.

2. Tel Aviv's base hammers are 46. But you have numerous production multipliers in that city. You have a factory (+25%) with power (+50%), and a forge (+25%). You are are producing military units which further increases your production due to the Heroic Epic (+100%) and a Military Academy (+25%).

Does the Heroic Epic benefits only one city?

So from 46 base hammers I got all the way to 350+ production with these improvements?
That is +600% increase.
Are these improvements compounded?

3. Your other cities are OK-but you are having some problems with unhappiness

That is because I have long ongoing war against 4 nations, lol.
I am working on adding Jails in many cities to decrease war wariness.

4. Yafo has nearly the same number of base hammers (45) but there are hill tiles that are windmilled. If you want more hammers/production, change your cities windmills to mines and railroad the tiles that you have mines in for +1.

Thank you for the tip.

Since you have excess food at some of your cities(cities are still growing), you could convert some of the windmills to mines and farms to workshops. The excess food is not helping much since many of your cities are at or above your happiness limits for those cities.

How can I determine the happiness limit per city?

A few turns ago I had shortage of food in most of my cities so I had to take steps to improve that.
Now I can go back and emphasize on Production.

------

Just couple of days ago I noticed something strange I didn’t read about in any of the articles.
Tel-Aviv has 350+ Production and when I train units that take 150 Production or less it only trains one unit instead of two per turn.
All this time I assumed that my cities can train multiple units per turn if they are producing enough Production.
However, now I see that a city can only train one unit per turn and that the excess Production is being lost (wasted).

Is that correct or am I missing something?

If that is true then we need to pay special attention to what cities are producing in late game in order not to waste production points.

Is there a way to produce more than one unit per turn?

 

[nbcman]

Does the Heroic Epic benefits only one city?

Yes.

So from 46 base hammers I got all the way to 350+ production with these improvements?
That is +600% increase.
Are these improvements compounded?

The production multipliers are additive-but you have overflow from previous production further increasing your production total for Tel Aviv. If you mouse over the production total it will describe the multipliers and the overflow from your previous turn.

That is because I have long ongoing war against 4 nations, lol.
I am working on adding Jails in many cities to decrease war wariness.

I didn't look when I was examining your game but you could change to Police State civic to reduce your war weariness by 50%. Also, if you have researched Fascism you could build the Mount Rushmore national wonder to reduce your war weariness by 25%. If you want more tips about happiness, cabert's thread below is very good discussion of how to increase happiness:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189559

How can I determine the happiness limit per city?

The happiness limit is shown to the right of the production bar in the city screen. There will be a number in front of which is your happiness limit for that city. You can view all of your cities happiness (and other details) by pressing F1.

Just couple of days ago I noticed something strange I didn’t read about in any of the articles.
Tel-Aviv has 350+ Production and when I train units that take 150 Production or less it only trains one unit instead of two per turn.
All this time I assumed that my cities can train multiple units per turn if they are producing enough Production.
However, now I see that a city can only train one unit per turn and that the excess Production is being lost (wasted).

Is that correct or am I missing something?

If that is true then we need to pay special attention to what cities are producing in late game in order not to waste production points.

Is there a way to produce more than one unit per turn?

No, each city can only produce one item per turn. The excess production will overflow into the next item produced up to the limit of the cost of that item. If the overflow is greater than the cost of the next item, the amount of overflow greater than the cost of the next item is converted to gold. For a detailed description of the overflow mechanics, see vale's thread here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218272

 

[MosheLevi]

The production multipliers are additive

So the multipliers are not compounded?

Thank you for the tips and references
It’s a great material.

 

[MosheLevi]

Why am I getting 125% more Production in Tel-Aviv for "Military Units"?
What does that mean?

 

[Tatran]

Police State + Heroic Epic ?

 

[nbcman]

Why am I getting 125% more Production in Tel-Aviv for "Military Units"?
What does that mean?

You have the Heroic Epic and a Military Academy there. The Heroic Epic is +100% to production when producing military and the Military Academy is +25%. If Tel Aviv is not producing military units, those bonuses are not applied to the base production.

 

[MosheLevi]

Interesting.

Right now I have 350 Production in Tel-Aviv but military units cost 250 or less.

How would the “Production Overflow” work in this case when I train military units?
Is the Production overflow cumulative for several turns?
How would the Production overflow be used when I build a building instead of military unit?

 

[nbcman]

@ MosheLevi

The number of overflow hammers applied to the next item is the total of hammers produced minus the cost of the unit. So if you were building a military unit that cost 250 hammers with a total production of 350, the 100 overflow hammers would be applied to the next item whether it is a unit, a building or a wonder without any modification.

 

[UWHabs]

@ MosheLevi

The number of overflow hammers applied to the next item is the total of hammers produced minus the cost of the unit. So if you were building a military unit that cost 250 hammers with a total production of 350, the 100 overflow hammers would be applied to the next item whether it is a unit, a building or a wonder without any modification.

I'm pretty sure it converts those 100 extra back to raw hammers, though. So, if you were getting +200% (through a combination of forges, civics, Ironworks, Heroic epic, etc..), then you would get 33 raw hammers carry over to your next build, which would then get whatever modifiers are associated with them.

 

[nbcman]

@UWHabs

Not according to vale's thread that I cited on an earlier post. He specifically lists the direct conversion of hammers whipped from a building on a one-to-one ratio to the production as opposed to any reduction:

The Wonder Whipping Overflow Trick

Whipping wonders does not convert to at the same rate as whipping normal buildings or units. However, if you whip a building the turn before completion, the Overflow Hammers will be applied to the wonder that follows even though they were created using a more beneficial to ratio. This is very easy to pull off, just try to ensure that none of your Excess Hammers are being converted to Overflow Gold by whipping only on a building that has a Base Cost somewhat greater than 90 .

 

[UWHabs]

@UWHabs

Not according to vale's thread that I cited on an earlier post. He specifically lists the direct conversion of hammers whipped from a building on a one-to-one ratio to the production as opposed to any reduction:

The Wonder Whipping Overflow Trick

Whipping wonders does not convert to at the same rate as whipping normal buildings or units. However, if you whip a building the turn before completion, the Overflow Hammers will be applied to the wonder that follows even though they were created using a more beneficial to ratio. This is very easy to pull off, just try to ensure that none of your Excess Hammers are being converted to Overflow Gold by whipping only on a building that has a Base Cost somewhat greater than 90 .

They're still converted back to raw hammers. So if you're playing at normal speed, and you do a completely excess whip at the end of a build, you get 30 overflow hammers, instead of the 20 you would otherwise gain from just whipping the wonder itself (since wonders are whipped at lower efficiency).

So, for example, you have a city that gets 70 base hammers per turn, you have overflow from a build for 30, and you get +200% for building a unit (forge/factory/power/heroic epic, for example). You're building an infantry (cost 140). Your city shows that you have 300 hammers. The excess that will be carried forward will be (300-140)/3 = 160/3, or 53 base hammers for whatever you build next.