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City ranged attack!

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Tarzan737, Nov 28, 2018.

  1. Tarzan737

    Tarzan737 Chieftain

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    In civ6 (i know, don´t judge me) the cities doesent have the ability with ranged attack anymore.. IF damaged enough
    and i like that..

    is it possible to steal that to civ5 so that when cities bombarded to zero they can´t attack like that or if in blockade?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  2. ilteroi

    ilteroi Chieftain

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    funny you ask that. i was in fact thinking about removing the ranged attack from cities as well. maybe for compensation give everybody a free starting warrior to fend off the barbarians.

    @All: how would you like that?
     
  3. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    Are you talking about removing range attacks form cities entirely? I'm opposed. What's the point? It would make balance issues with:
    -Defensive buildings
    -Drill and City Assault promotion
    -Orders
    -Policies and Tenets that boost cities' CS

    In this circumstances I guess it won't matter anyway.
     
    Skidizzle, vyyt and civplayer33 like this.
  4. ryanmusante

    ryanmusante Regular Supporter

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    Balance issues or just that they would become purely a defensive bonus structure?

    Walls as example provide:
    • +10 City Defense Strength,
    • +50 Hit Points
    • +10% supply cap from pop
    • Increase's City's Ranged Strike by 1
     
  5. civplayer33

    civplayer33 Chieftain

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    I'm opposed as well, but before I lay out any reasoning I'd like to hear what the reasons for the change are.

    So far all I've read is "Civ VI has it and we like it"...
     
    Skidizzle, vyyt and CppMaster like this.
  6. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    Every defensive building would be nerfed, therefore civs with unique defensive building would also be nerfed. Also policies that boosts defensive buildings.
     
  7. YukiN

    YukiN Chieftain

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    I'm okay with the idea in abstracto. It makes attacks the purview of units and cities don't get to shoot unless it has an appropriate garrison, which makes sense given that our cities aren't exactly Tokyo-3. It simplifies the system and is intuitive without taking away richness. If this was a new mod, I would be in support.

    However, in practice I am not very comfortable. It's quite a big change at this stage of the mod. No doubt any balance issues can be ironed out eventually, but that's a lot of things to change at this stage of development.

    Maybe make it a mod-mod.
     
  8. pza

    pza Chieftain

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    dislike.
    if only for the reason that it takes away a distinctive feature that separates civ5 from civ6. Im pretty sure many people play VP cause they disliked civ6. and bringing them closer is a bad thing.
    but no, it's not the only reason. as mentioned before: big change for the state of the mod, unnecessary balance changes, further unforseen problems with barbs, bigger playing field than civ6.
    arguments in favor: "someone likes it" is just not strong enough.
     
    CppMaster likes this.
  9. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Warlord

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    On of the things I like about civ 5 is that having a garnison is not required.
    So I do like the existence of a ranged city attack.

    If I were to remove the city attack, I would replace it with something like "ennemy units takes damage each turn when nearby a city" (Something like 5 per turn, with ranged an value depending on defensive buildings).

    But changing the city attack feel completely unecessary. Unless of course it happens to solve some problems with the AI / the code / whatever.
     
  10. FoxOfWar

    FoxOfWar Chieftain

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    I like cities having an attack and playing around that both offensively and defensively. Trying to take a city with walls vs. taking one without is a different game partly because walls give that +1 range. Same with Castles and that range damage increase. Cities should not be easier to take - that bug we just had that that made cities take a lot more damage killed enjoyment pretty quickly.

    Also... why?
     
    vyyt likes this.
  11. Bryan317

    Bryan317 Chieftain

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    I think when the initial range was changed to 1 instead of 2 was the only change necessary. It makes sense in that early game to keep the range small. After that I think it's pretty well balanced throughout the game. Cities become defensive positions, as they should be.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  12. nekokon

    nekokon Chieftain

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    Cities can attack even without a garrison because there's a thing called militia.
    Moreover in vp city isn't only a living/production/commercial hub, but can also serve as border fortress. Nothing wrong with them being able to fend off attackers without help from the army.
     
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  13. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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  14. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Chieftain

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    removing the ability altogether would be too much change for a civ 5 staple... it would be cool to have it more affected by city infrastructure, though (i like this direction w/ civ 6)... right now its almost too abstract. ie on a turn where a settler converts to city, it should still be a relatively trivial target for enemy military. A separate set of offensive buildings to develop the bombard ability would be fun for human, though i suspect too much to train AI for at this stage.

    alternatively, having some units immune to city bombard might add some depth (recon line?)

    I often play w/ mod to allow more units to stack in cities only -- something like this might fit well if cities have no bombard anymore... i've always wished these mods were dependent on infrastructure, too
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  15. RuntimeError

    RuntimeError Chieftain

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    Exactly, cities in Civ 6 have a ranged attack. The difference is that it requires a wall to be built. The encampment district does have a ranged attack, too
     
  16. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    My interpretation of the OP is that he refers to the feature in civ 6 that disables the city ranged attack when the walls are down... for that, VP would need to model walls health separated from city health, as per civ 6. I don't know if that is possible, and especially, if that can be taught to the AI without a lot of code everywhere...
     
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  17. Tarzan737

    Tarzan737 Chieftain

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    Sorry! I lost some part of my first text.. my intention was not to remove ranged attack completely.. and yes it is in civ6 but as what i know you loose that ability when the city is bombarded heavely enough..

    my intention was that cities loose their ranged attack ability if it is to damaged.
     
  18. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    We should not change it for civ 5. Trying to go for gold people, these are the radical changes we need to avoid
     
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  19. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    Stalker, the Gold Keeper :)
     
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  20. ilteroi

    ilteroi Chieftain

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    Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    I feel the city bombardment doesn't add anything substantial to the game, the damage it deals is negligible after the classical era and the UI is clunky. But the people have spoken.
     
    glider1 likes this.

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