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City spacing

Discussion in 'CivBE - Strategy & Tips' started by VCrakeV, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    So, as I see it, it's obviously a good idea to space cities 6 tiles apart, so they all get 36 tiles to work, and won't have to compete for land. However, I'm debating if there are exceptions.



    For example, in my current game, I have an island with one city on it, but it can't work all of the island. It has room for another city, but they'd have to share some tiles. Should I build the city? Are there any other exceptions?
     
  2. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    You will never reach anything close the population to work 36 tiles and basic tile yields are not that important in Beyond Earth (Improvements are). Any tile - with maybe the Exception of Snow tiles (Although in the later stages of the game they can be fine to put some academies on as well) - that can be worked is somewhat viable to be worked later on.

    So overall, you want to settle cities as close together as you can get away with without running out of tiles later on. How close exactly that is depends a lot on how fast you win the game and how much you grow your cities. I personally end up with city sizes around 10-15 and that allows me to almost settle them at minimum distance if there are no mountains/canyons/water tiles.
     
  3. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    I usually have about 20 or so in most cities, the my capital has much more. And that surely seems like an extreme example, which is still not including specialists. So I suppose it's safe to share a few tiles? My main concern is that I often have large cities, but I notice the AI builds close together.
     
  4. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    I usually don't use specialists as they're not very efficient, but if you use then, then yes, you should of course factor them in. I suppose an easy way of finding out how close you can build your cities is to look at your empire at the end of a game and see if there's a big amount of unused space. If there is, well, then you could have built them closer to each other.

    Beyond Earth is a lot different to Civ 5 in that regards. As I said, basic Tile yields have rather little influence long-term, so it's not about spacing out cities to not share tiles. Quite the opposite, it's a good thing to squeeze them together as closely as possible without running out of space for your citizens, because that means that you have less territory to defend, less spread that may annoy the AIs, less Maintenance for (and less time spent when building) Roads/Magrails, an easier time covering most of your tiles with satellites, the Ability to reach invaders with Air Units stationed in other Cities, more space for additional cities later on, etc.

    You just have to make sure to leave enough space so every citizen has a tile/specialist slot available, because if you end up with unassigned citizens, then that's a much bigger problem than having cities spaced out a bit too much.

    Oh and never take the AI as an example. ;) It's bad and very inefficient in pretty much any aspect of the game.
     
  5. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Chieftain

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    I usually go with minimum distance, sometimes one more if that means I can add a good ressource tile (like Xenomass or Titanium). Anything further away happens because terrain (canyons, mountains, tundra) dictates it.

    Do not fear the overlap, your cities will never grow enough to make that a problem unless you have *a lot* of unusable tiles.
     
  6. Aldor

    Aldor Chieftain

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    I use 5 tiles distance where possible, as this allows enough space for each city, while not wasting much. From the current city I count 5 tiles in the direction I want to expand to, and then look wether there's a good spot there. But I'm not very strict about it, if a better spot is available one tile further away (or one closer) then that's fine too.
     
  7. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the help, guys! ^_^ Started a new game, second city was quite far (damn craters and canyons) but third was just 5 tiles away. I've got another related question:



    After scouting the map, I noticed that there's a huge chunk of Firaxite (2 plots of 8 within <10 tiles), and I'm tempted to send a colonist, so I can call dibs, but it's really far, and blocked by aliens. Is it worth making a small army and journey? If I don't, someone else would surely nab the land. Of course, I would fill in the land between the new city and my capital once I can.
     
  8. Lucius_

    Lucius_ Chieftain

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    Regarding your new question, I would say that depends. Are you going Supremacy? If so, then yeah absolutely. Also what difficulty and how close to the AI is it? Will you be able to defend it?
     
  9. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    Too late. Turns out the AI spawned right next to it. Then another AI went to war with me for no good reason, and I have to start over, because she must have spent her whole time building units. I hope they really fix this game...
     
  10. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    What's to fix about that? ^^ Keep an eye on your opponents and that won't happen anymore. A close neighbor that doesn't (mass-)expand away from you? Good reason to send a unit to poke their borders and see if how many units pop up.
     
  11. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    Well, obviously, I can't tell what's going on in their territory unless I have orbital coverage, a spy (too early for that), or the obvious unit sight. So, that means I have to waste my unit's turns (or my city's production) just to see if my neighbor is secretly planning on an invasion? That's just not right. There should be some indication as to why I would be attacked (she wasn't even guarded before declaring war). It'd be different if there weren't 5+ units on my borders as soon as she declares war. That's what's to be fixed.
     
  12. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    Well, ideally she'd send you a text message that she's building up an army and planning to attack you 15 turns before she actually does so that you can prepare. ;) But other than that... yes, sometimes you need to invest stuff in things that you wouldn't want to invest in if you don't want to take a gamble. But you get a free Soldier when you plant your outpost, so why not just use that?

    And again, there are other signs. If an AI is not expanding that pretty much always means that it's going to attack a neighbor. If you're close and don't have a big military, well, then you can be sure that that neighbor is going to be you.
     
  13. Lucius_

    Lucius_ Chieftain

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    When you declare war, where are your units at? 1 hex from the border, declare war, then march on in? Why should the AI play any different?

    Also, building units is not wasting production. If you feel so, might be best to just turn the difficulty down a notch.
     
  14. VCrakeV

    VCrakeV Chieftain

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    Thanks for the help. Problem is, how can I tell if they're expanding if I can't see outside my territory? I suppose it can't hurt to just send one unit over to nearby territory on occasion.



    @Lucius I don't declare war, but I imagine that in real life, the US doesn't have its soldiers and fighter jets waiting just outside of <insert country with oil>. So far in the future, you'd think people would be civilized enough to not war at all, let alone be so aggressive about it. I can only imagine declaring war in the case of a pact, a response to a nearby army approaching, etc.
     
  15. Lucius_

    Lucius_ Chieftain

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    I get it. War is part of Civ games. Always have, always will be. War CAN definitely be avoided, easily on low difficulties, with some skill on higher difficulties. The trick to avoid war? Build units. Lots of units if necessary. It's a deterrent. If you have no military to speak of, yes, of course the AI is going to DoW you. The game isn't programmed to ignore easy targets, because again, war is part of Civ.
     
  16. MechMedic130

    MechMedic130 Chieftain

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    I find explorers to be pretty useful in keeping an eye on my neighbors borders. Past the first 50 turns or so they become rather useless since all the pods and expeditions are gobbled up. Plus they are cheap to build. Stick them near your neighbors lands and just keep an eye on how many units you can see milling about.

    And never assume that just because you want to play a peaceful game that you can ignore your military. That's not to say that you have to be building a massive invasion force, but defense isn't too hard in this game unless you are playing on like Apollo. Ranged units can absolutely devastate an incoming Army if you catch them quick enough. If you build city defense structures and ranged units you can easily deter a high number of invaders. Get your ranged units some Veterancy by taking pot shots at aliens, ESPECIALLY coastal aliens. Put them on the shore and let them go hog wild on any sucker sea dragons or krakens that happen to be floating around minding their own business.

    I also like to hide a couple of armor units away from my city, but with road access. That way when the AI thinks he's got you surrounded you sweep in with a few armor units and trash their ranged units. Once they lose their ranged units they're tits up, smashing melee units into your highly fortified city.
     
  17. michaeljhuman

    michaeljhuman Chieftain

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    I was surprised people count so closely. I concentrate on good locations, and don't concern myself so much with distance. Specalist slots seem like a decent option for civilians which can't find a good tile to work. I like the institute for better science for example.

    I think it's easy to get cites to more than 20 people, so I could argue 4 away is a bit close, but I rarely see my civilians working horrible tiles, and if I see it, I can always put down a terrascape or other decent improvement.
     
  18. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Chieftain

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    Settling cities close together means less upkeep for your road network, which equals earlier and higher energy profits from city connections.

    Specialists are bad because their yields are way too low. You can use them as a short term solution while you are still building Academies, but otherwise it is way more profilable to work tiles, because getting extra food or hammers is worth a lot more than extra energy.
     
  19. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Avoid getting locked into a set pattern no matter what since doing so will result in some cases in permanently leaving key tiles unworked.

    Global Health is pushing in the direction of the fewest cities that end up working all key tiles.

    However, the current trade route logic is pushing in the direction of having one key city (that one that's going to produce the victory project) be as productive as possible (and therefore likely to be the case that that specific city wants more space with its neighbors) and the other cities that should have as few hammers as possible (which pushes in the direction of less space.)
    This same logic is pushing in the direction of as many cities as possible because more cities = more routes.
     
  20. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Arabian King

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    I simply space my cities 4-5 tiles away, since most cities can only grow to ~ 15-20 pops in the end. Closer cities make easy defense
     

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