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City specialization and districts - how will it work in reality?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Sansa_Stark, Jul 30, 2016.

  1. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    I do hope that tile improvements change a lot during the game. With advancement into the late game a single farm should provide nearly enough for a city. So you should build lots of farms/mines in the beginning and later replace them with housing and districts. It would be realistic and interesting since districts and more special tile improvements would not be limited as much by tile space. City growth would not go through the roof by having 5 farms because it is limited by housing, amenities, whatever. It alway felt a bit strange that late game cities still needed that many basic tile improvements. A modern farm should easily replace 5 medieval ones. This might also work for mines since they got a lot more efficient in the last 3000 years... in Civ5 the improvements over time where there, but not enough imho. In this case districts are more a thing of build order and good timing (temporal specialization, preferences of the moment) instead of real specialization for the whole game.
     
  2. ProMeTheus112

    ProMeTheus112 Warlord

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    Sure food production being significantly more efficient in the modern/contemporary eras makes sense and feels right, but probably shouldn't be so easy either?
    In reality, towns rely on a lot of food supply that just come from further away, the countryside, the other end of the country (or abroad or really long distance which is generally worse^^). More modern production techniques increase yield, but you are still limited by the amount of nutrients in the earth and cycles and such. In civ games so far there has been no global food or food transit. I feel like with the model of food produced locally, if smaller towns are not supplying food to bigger towns and every town must supply their own food, there should even in modern/futuristic era still be significant difficulties in achieving more growth including by food. Otherwise any spot with almost bare land has nearly the same potential for growth of a large town as any other, and food becomes trivial in the late game.
    It could be interesting and more realistic if smaller towns could supply food to others by for example, limited housing but producing lots of food from farms, then the extra food gets added to some global pool which distributes that food to towns that need it in an order of priority that the player could decide by editing a list. But it is really another model.
     
  3. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    How do you figure? There are literally entire sections of game-time that force you to choose a specialization in a city due to the pop restrictions on districts. Even if it takes as little as 40 turns to get to the pop needed to build your 3rd or 4rth district in a city, if that's the point you decide to build a campus, then that's 40 turns (more for build time of campus+library) of crap science output in that city.

    Compared to going Campus first, that's 40 turns of good science output in that city. This doesn't even add in the terrain bonuses and other potential factors yet.

    Opportunity cost is everything in civ. The difference between a holy site first or hoy site 2nd or 3rd will probably mean the difference in founding a religion in civ6. Now that's the very early game, but these kinds of choices are still very important in mid-game as well.

    Honestly, I'm guessing that most city sites will be decided on based on what their first three districts are going to be. If you have a string of mountains and don't build a campus or holy site first you're cheating yourself out of up to hundreds of lost beakers or faith.

    Now that doesn't mean you have to build the campus or holy site first, maybe you build that city there for other reasons, but in terms of planning I'm sure building one of those two districts sooner rather than later was factored in to the settling of that city and will factor into it's specialization.
     
  4. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    It is possible that pops don't consume as much food or not even consume food at all in Civ 6 as long as they are less then their housing capacity. That would reduce the need of farms and make other stuff such as housing capacity more important for city growth.

    It also mean you can replace most of your farms after a while for other improvements.
     
  5. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Civ BE had some tile improvements that i almost never built (I admit being not really good in BE though). With the districts/housing competing for tiles I would very much like to need less farms/mines. Considering the district called aqueduct (is this the official name?) - the name and look suggests it to be needed rather early, right? So it might compete with the third or fourth district already if you want a lot of growth.
     
  6. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Farms and food production have feelt a bit to important in previous games so I hope they reduce its importance to allow for other stuff to shine. Housing capacity could take over much of the role of food.

    Neighbourhoods look to be a mid-late game improvement given its look in the screenshots so you will probably not see urbanization before the industrial revolution. Before neighbourhoods farms will be the best improvement to grow your cities large but are inferior to neighbourhoods as the extra food from farms can not make up for the food lost to being over the housing capacity.

    Farms would still be useful to grow your pop but poor or even useless to maintain your pop.
     
  7. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    I certainly hope food is still necessary to support your existing population, I'd find it extremely immersion breaking if it didn't. If there need to be fewer farms late game to allow for districts and wonders, it makes much more sense just to increase the yield bonuses from fertilizer, etc.
     
  8. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    There may still be a food cost to maintain the people but it may be very low like 0.25 per pop or something while each pop over the housing capacity use 5-10 food.

    Housing capacity have cleary been mentioned as being more important then farms then it comes to build large cities such as neighbourhoods replace farms in mid-late game and cities without fresh water will not grow large due to low housing capacity.

    You could think of neighbourhoods representing the point in which farms have become so productive that not all land need to be farmed and people start moving into the cities, basically think industrial revolution. Just because the whole land is not farmed don't mean there are farms in the tile and most tiles do produce food even without farms.

    The farm improvement reprecent the era then as many as 90% of the people was peasants.
     
  9. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    I'm not sure where you got those numbers. Most districts have 4 buildings, plus city itself could have 3 buildings (4 if you count Palace). With 4 districts, that's 19. And these limits don't apply to wonders - just the space limit.
     
  10. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    The buildings need techs and some can only be built with late game tech so a campus district for example may not give access to more then two buildings for a long while even tought the campus district may be built with very early tech.

    Districs are like keys, they unlock a number of buildings which you can build. Given how limited the numbers of districts are for each city it mean you have to choose wisely which doors to unlock. Unlocking them in a poor order will slow you down.
     
  11. E_T

    E_T Chieftain

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    One thing that I am curious about is how districts effect cities, when the district is in the overlap (less than 7 spacing, between)? As adjacentcy bonuses are not city specific (some from city A, some from City B and possibly City C), but do the benifits get spread or shared between both cities???
     
  12. E_T

    E_T Chieftain

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    or one city builds the district while the other builds a building in it??
     
  13. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    I'm a bit apprehensive at the fact that buildings once again will seem to cost maintenance.
    While I suppose it's to incentivize narrower specialization from a limited pool of Gold to make sure you stay solvent,
    I feel like developing a city to begin with, would be not only be incentivized, but also invested, if the city were to be made profitable over time by a player doting Districts and Improvements onto it.

    Considering this isn't Endless Legend with Roving Clan moving cities, where you put down your cities is going to be of utmost importance to take advantage of things like a row of peaks.
    I guess my point is, how specialized is a city going to be if we're conceivably going to give every city a Commercial District just to make sure it isn't a drain on Gold?
     
  14. rastak

    rastak Emperor

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    Not sure I understand. Building maintenance has been a thing for the last 6 years in Civ. You thought they might drop it in 6?
     
  15. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    The monument (+2 culture/turn) is built in the city centre, so you can actually have one culture building without a dedicated district.
     
  16. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    In Civ4 cities themselves cost maintenance and buildings only added boni (with some exceptions, like the coal plant giving unhealth), many people (myself included) found that a more elegant design choice.
     
  17. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    No, to be realistic with myself, it was probably always going to be the case that Building Maintenance was going to be the case in Civ 6.
    I'd just personally like Gold to be less of a spending measure and more of a reserve.
    A bit like in Civ 2, where you had both Building Maintenance and Sliders, so you could pump Science up temporarily
    when you needed to and revert to Gold-making when the Maintenance combined with dwindling reserves fell below the waterline of financial solvency.

    Hit the nail on the head as well.
     
  18. unpossible251

    unpossible251 Warlord

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    Yeah, initially i thought / felt / assumed that "tier 1" buildings (library, monument, workshop, market) might be able to just go in the city centre, while "tier 2" or "3" buildings (armories, banks, ampitheters etc etc) would need a district location.

    I've been wondering how national wonders (heroic epic, national college) could possibly work if there is no place to put a simple library in a valuable, but non-science city.

    Wait and see huh?
     
  19. oddtail

    oddtail Warlord

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    I really hope national wonders are not tightly connected with specific buildings. I'm not crazy about that arrangement in Civ 5.

    It would be cool if they were just unlockable (by policy/tech) wonders that differ from World Wonders only in that they can be built by multiple civilizations. Now that Wonders take up a hex, I don't feel there is a need to further limit the possibility of building a National Wonder, in a way that feels somewhat artificial.

    If there's a limit, I hope it is population-based, similar to Districts, or location-based (next to a particular terrain type, or existing district, or whatever).
     
  20. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    There were no indication of National Wonders in the game. It's highly likely they are not in.

    If there are National Wonders in the game, they'll clearly not require specific building to built everywhere.
     

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