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City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    One problem I have with great diplomats is that they are dependant on luck. You build an embassy in a citystate and venice decides to buy it, now you've wasted your diplomat.
    Also the whole idea that there is only room for so many embassies in the game that lategame great diplomats are a lot less valueable, you either rush for them or you wont be able to get any extra votes. Sure you'll still be able to stop others from getting votes from embassies by capturing the citystates, but I'm not really sure that's the best solution ever.

    One simple solution would be to replace the embassy option with just consuming the diplomat in your capital for a permanent extra vote, but I'm not one hundred percent sure that would be a good solution either. Votes probably shouldn't be unlimited and so on.
     
  2. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    I would rather keep the theme.
    What I suggested suits the Great Diplomats much more.
    I don't see anything wrong about the ability for them (feels perfectly thematic) to be able to slightly boost your relations with the major civs too.

    I agree about Great Merchants though, they could also use another ability.
    But I would strictly connect that one to trade, and gold.
    Maybe they could create an additional trade route for your civ. Or would it be too overpowered?
    Another idea is, that they can boost all your trade routes for 45 turns by 20%. This can even be cumulative, so if you use a second GM while the first boost is still active, you would get double benefits for a couple turns.

    PS: the 45 turns and 20% just random numbers here, whatever works for balance
    PS2: both of these would scale with the game speed, obviously
     
  3. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Wait, what? I thought there is a tech which unlocks the Great Diplomats ability to establish embassies. If not, there should be. Seems a little strange, if you can do that from the beginning of the game (after you are able to spawn great diplomats of course, IIRC with Civil Service). The world congress is still hundreds of turns away, and you already have an extra vote with your embassy?

    Apart from that, I really like the ability to build embassies, and the fact that it's a race for getting as much first city states embassies as possible.
    IMO it's a great design, but as you said, it has a rather limited lifespan.
    So I'm pretty certain GDs need something else to do, and this is another reason for it.
    Ideally it should be connected to major civs (it seems I can't stop lobbying for it, sry for that :crazyeye:)

    That would be a terrible option IMO.
    Votes should definitely be limited.
    Also seems rather dull, to be honest.
     
  4. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Would be useless in multiplayer, which I personally don't care about but I know others do, and that usually isn't a solution. Also while it is thematic in theory, in the game there is no actual relation between diplomacy with citystates and diplomacy between players.

    Sounds way too situational, that's the problem. There have been a lot of other suggestions about the great merchant in some other thread which I don't care to find atm. They included starting 'We love the king day' in all your cities, boosting population in cities and so on. One of hte problems from what I remember is that the AI can't really learn to use them differently, which makes most of the suggestions pretty limited.

    And leave you herding your diplomats in your capital until then? Sounds kinda wrong aswell.

    I just provided a simple solution for one of the more boring problems. Also considering most games embassyslots doesn't run out it is more a safeguard against matchups against some AIs which spam like crazy, would take a whole lot of extra diplomats to make these extravotes break the diplovictory.
     
  5. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    I don't think it's relevant here that the games handles diplomacy with city-states and diplomacy with major civs differently.
    Thematically it's still perfectly fitting if Great Diplomats have some actions with major civs too, I don't see a point in restricting them only to city-states.

    While it's true that it won't be useable in multiplayer, it's still an improvement in single player games. It's a totally extra option after all, won't take anything away from the ones we already have.
    Also, for me it greatly adds to the immersion, making Diplomats more realistic. Probably I'm not the only one with this.

    I don't think it's more situational, than the vanilla trade mission.
    Giving it a little more thought, I think the best solution would be (if we follow the trade route line), that they give an extra trade route for x turns in the city which the ability is used, while boosting all trade routes for the same x turns by y%

    Yeah, this is a concern for me too, would make it rather easy for the player. But probably it's possible to tie the ability to a promotion, and only Great Diplomats after the given tech would get that promotion.

    I think we disagree here what's boring in the context of Great Diplomats.
     
  6. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I think you're right :D

    Probably not, but I haven't used a vanilla trade mission since they removed the influence from it.
    I don't like the idea of it depending on you running external traderoutes. They could be plundered, or you could be running internal traderoutes instead.
    I also don't like the idea if it just producing gold. The custom house is already remade as a half food half gold improvement, it would be logical to assume the trademission should be the same way, which was the idea behind the we love the king day triggering from it.
     
  7. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    ;)

    I never said the bonus could produce gold only.
    International trade routes also produce science, while domestic routes food and production.
    This GM ability could boost all of them, in one form or another.
    Obviously it doesn't need to depend on you running external trade routes.
     
  8. MayNilad Man

    MayNilad Man King

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    how about giving great diplomats the ability to enforce a non-aggressions pact for a set number of terms (like how a newly-signed peace treaty works) or the ability to make a specific civ (or all civs) forget your transgressions and broken promises?
     
  9. ldvhl

    ldvhl ніщо

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    I just tried to download the mod, but dropbox ssaid it was moved or unavailable?
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    The dropbox link is currently broken - I'll fix it once I'm back at my PC. Sorry.

    G
     
  11. zer0lis

    zer0lis Chieftain

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    Does the Ai has an option to turn off automatic gifting of units from allied military CS when they cant handle the unit maintenance? In one of my games, a military CS financially ruined a civ they allied with.
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    It should, yes. Also I fixed the Dropbox link.
    G
     
  13. zer0lis

    zer0lis Chieftain

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    Im trying to figure out why civs have gold deficits sometimes, without an apparent reason. One reason could be the innability for workers to build improvements on all unique tiles, as ive noticed in alot of games on king settings.(now Im testing on emperor, Ill update my thoughts and tests).
     
  14. Estebanium

    Estebanium Prince

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    Hi guys,

    While I was translating the latest text changes of "CSDCompatibility.sql" of the "Community Balance Patch - CSD Compatibility (1-30v2)" folder, I became a bit confused about this entry:
    'This National Wonder is unique, in that players may only build it in your capital, so long as you have a national population of 12. It gives a small production boost when building diplomatic units in the capital, and one [ICON_RES_PAPER] Paper resource. Build this building if you want to secure a city-state ally or two during the first few eras of the game. The additional [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production granted upon City growth makes it important to build this building early on to maximize the boost. Requires 40 [ICON_CITIZEN] National Population before it can be constructed.'​

    Does it mean that I can build this national wonder if I have a pop of 12, but the additional production is only unlocked by reaching a pop of 40?

    In the following entries you can read something about the requirements for being able to build something like this:TXT_KEY_BUILDING_PALACE_SCIENCE_CULTURE_HELP
    In the vanilla version of CSD you had to build a Public School in every City in order to unlock this building. Now you can read it like having only one Public School in the city where the wonder will be build. "Must have built a Public School in the city." But the last sentence gives a hint to how it was in vanilla: "The cost goes up the more cities there are in the empire." So is it a wrong wording? "..Must have built a Public School in (every?) city.."​
    This issue can be found in several descriptions below..
     
  15. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    It is a typo - I'll fix for the next version (both values should be 20)

    G
     
  16. Estebanium

    Estebanium Prince

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    :confused: So am I right that the building can be build by reaching 20 population and getting the bonus of production by reaching 40 pop? I mean if the last figure in the text is higher than the figure before, the last figure will always deny the first condition..

    And what do you say to my question to the missing "in every City" text. Is it obsolete, so is the hint with the upgoing costs outdated, or is the word every/each missing? ^^
     
  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Sorry, my post didn't make sense. The values should be the same for each text file (so if a national pop of 20 is needed, that's the number that should be in the text in both places.

    Regarding the missing 'in every city' text, you only need to build the prereq building in the city where you are going to build the NW, however the cost of the NW still increases based on the number of cities in your empire.


    Here's the fixed text:

     
  18. Estebanium

    Estebanium Prince

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    Ah! Ok now I understand ^^, but isn't it done twice by saying: "Ok you need 20 pop in order to build this thing and.. hey have I already mentioned that you need 20 population..?" Don't get me wrong sometimes it is better to repeat something again to avoid questions by the player, but I think I got the message.. :)
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yeah, I'll remove the second one. :)
    G
     
  20. Estebanium

    Estebanium Prince

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    Nice! I edited my translation of the CSD mod and also added the latest changes of the "Community Balance Patch - CSD Compatibility". For the last one you only have to add the "Languages" folder to the .modinfo file, like you did it for CSD. It would be nice if you would add my latest translation to the CSD-Pack :)

    View attachment CSD for CBP (1-30v2) translated v2.zip

    EDIT: I updated the CSDCompatibility.sql file, because I had a semicolon at the wrong position which resulted in a text filled screen ^^. The linked file above is the latest version.

    Code:
    Gebäude zu ziehen.';
    WHERE Tag = 'TXT_KEY_BUILDING_COURT_SCRIBE_STRATEGY';
     

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