City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)

I've been having some computer issues and thus haven't been playing recently so I cannot comment on the recent builds, but there is one other thing for a TBC version (if you're still considering it): Allow the CS kill quests back in - Thal has given them significant bonuses and they're quite fun!

The recent changes seem good, I'm looking forward to playing them:goodjob:
 
I've been having some computer issues and thus haven't been playing recently so I cannot comment on the recent builds, but there is one other thing for a TBC version (if you're still considering it): Allow the CS kill quests back in - Thal has given them significant bonuses and they're quite fun!

The recent changes seem good, I'm looking forward to playing them:goodjob:

Sorry about the computer woes. One thing the new version is lacking is a pair of shiny Seek-approved icons for the East India Company and the East Indiaman. Right now they are just the classic 'VoC' logo for the EIC and, for the Indiaman, the VoC logo superimposed over an orange-background dove (like the other diplo units). Not very CSD.

G
 
I found a bug in the 2.9.2 version of the mod, don't know whether it's fixed in the beta version:
When Educated Elite (policy from the Patronage branch) is active, city states often gift (often outdated) diplomatic units instead of the Great People they should.
 
I found a bug in the 2.9.2 version of the mod, don't know whether it's fixed in the beta version:
When Educated Elite (policy from the Patronage branch) is active, city states often gift (often outdated) diplomatic units instead of the Great People they should.

That one has been around for a while...it is because the diplo units have to be labeled as great people for the AI to use the AI_MERCHANT that they are based on...an unfortunate side-effect of the mod, I'm afraid.

The real bugger I'm dealing with right now is an issue with the three free East Indiaman...one occasionally spawns in a landlocked city.
 
I've decided to scrap the East Indiaman unit, for now at least. The AI hates it, both in terms of game play AND in terms of general spawn-related bugginess. The EIC stays, however, as a coastal version of the Foreign Office (along with its .25 gold per pop bonus).

That's a shame. Maybe you could give it another bonus, such as faster embarked movement and/or ship building production increase?
 
Embark speed is a hard-and-fast constant, so no changes can be made to it (lame!). I think what I may do is the following:

1.) Move East India Company to the Medieval period, rename it 'Feast Hall' or something like that and give it a 50% diplo unit production bonus as well as a happiness/culture boost. I will then tie it into the Assembly as a National Wonder.

2.) The Assembly's bonus will be reduced back to 25%.

3.) I will make a new building for the Renaissance Era– the Printing Press – that has the same stats as the Assembly. This building will give science and culture with a little higher maintenance than the Assembly.

4.) The Foreign Office will be moved to the end of the Renaissance/beginning of the Industrial Era and will be tied into the Printing Press as a national wonder.

What do you think?
G
 
Embark speed is a hard-and-fast constant, so no changes can be made to it (lame!). I think what I may do is the following:

1.) Move East India Company to the Medieval period, rename it 'Feast Hall' or something like that and give it a 50% diplo unit production bonus as well as a happiness/culture boost. I will then tie it into the Assembly as a National Wonder.

2.) The Assembly's bonus will be reduced back to 25%.

3.) I will make a new building for the Renaissance Era– the Printing Press – that has the same stats as the Assembly. This building will give science and culture with a little higher maintenance than the Assembly.

4.) The Foreign Office will be moved to the end of the Renaissance/beginning of the Industrial Era and will be tied into the Printing Press as a national wonder.

What do you think?
G

Arg! I was going to suggest that the EIC only give civilian units additional embarked movement, but seems that's out the window as well.:sad:

While I'm not opposed to this line of changes, I do worry that all the production modifiers will make the diplo units too easy to make. If I'm adding it up correctly, one city could potentially have a 238% modifier in it - while that would probably be pretty rare in real games it seems a little excessive. One thing I like about the EIC is the coastal requirement, making it a little more difficult to stack both it and the FO in one city since coastal cities aren't great production cities until later in the game.

How about this: the EIC gives all units the embarked defensive promotion, including civilians? I think that would be really useful and fun. I like National Wonders that affect something outside of the base building's effect.
Spoiler :
Code:
		<Row>
			<Type>PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION</Description>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION_HELP</Help>
			<Sound>AS2D_IF_LEVELUP</Sound>
			<CannotBeChosen>true</CannotBeChosen>
			<TechPrereq>TECH_OPTICS</TechPrereq>
			<AllowsEmbarkation>true</AllowsEmbarkation>
			<EmbarkedNotCivilian>[B]false[/B]</EmbarkedNotCivilian>
			<PortraitIndex>22</PortraitIndex>
			<IconAtlas>PROMOTION_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
			<PediaType>PEDIA_SHARED</PediaType>
			<PediaEntry>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION</PediaEntry>
		</Row>
 
Arg! I was going to suggest that the EIC only give civilian units additional embarked movement, but seems that's out the window as well.:sad:

While I'm not opposed to this line of changes, I do worry that all the production modifiers will make the diplo units too easy to make. If I'm adding it up correctly, one city could potentially have a 238% modifier in it - while that would probably be pretty rare in real games it seems a little excessive. One thing I like about the EIC is the coastal requirement, making it a little more difficult to stack both it and the FO in one city since coastal cities aren't great production cities until later in the game.

How about this: the EIC gives all units the embarked defensive promotion, including civilians? I think that would be really useful and fun. I like National Wonders that affect something outside of the base building's effect.
Spoiler :
Code:
		<Row>
			<Type>PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION</Description>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION_HELP</Help>
			<Sound>AS2D_IF_LEVELUP</Sound>
			<CannotBeChosen>true</CannotBeChosen>
			<TechPrereq>TECH_OPTICS</TechPrereq>
			<AllowsEmbarkation>true</AllowsEmbarkation>
			<EmbarkedNotCivilian>[B]false[/B]</EmbarkedNotCivilian>
			<PortraitIndex>22</PortraitIndex>
			<IconAtlas>PROMOTION_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
			<PediaType>PEDIA_SHARED</PediaType>
			<PediaEntry>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_DEFENSIVE_EMBARKATION</PediaEntry>
		</Row>

That could be interesting, though I'm not sure just how powerful and/or useful that would be. What did you have in mind, scenario wise? Perhaps I just don't see it.

Also, the 238% bonus is high, but I have bumped unit costs per era up quite a bit to compensate. Now, you really have to build the full tree of diplo buildings if you want to compete.

Edit: Also, I think I may drop the paradrop promotion (ha!) for the WTO, as it too is unfair for the AI. I'll probably just make it a mass-diplo unit spawner (perhaps cost 1000, 4 free units) so that it is, essentially, a cost effective stimulus for late-game diplo. matches.

I might also drop the WTO completely, move the cost-for-free-units bonus to a new wonder in the early medieval period...the Apostolic Palace. Wonder bonus would be culture and happiness (slight), as well as three free unique 'missionary' diplo. units that move twice as fast as Envoys.

Here's my tentative plan:

Ancient Era: Messengers
Classical Era: Assemblies (+25% diplo unit production, +1 culture)
Medieval Era: Envoys, Apostolic Palace World Wonder (3 free Envoys, +2 culture, +3 happiness), Feast Hall National Wonder (+25% diplo unit production, +2 happiness, +1 culture, requires Assemblies in all cities)
Renaissance Era: Emissaries, Printing Press (+25% diplo unit production, +1 culture, +5 science, requires assembly), East India Company World Wonder (+50% diplo unit production, 1 gold per 3 citizens in city, requires coast)
Industrial Era: Diplomats, Foreign Office National Wonder (+50% diplomatic unit production, 'Can Enter Rival Territory' promotion, +2 culture, requires printing presses in all cities)
Modern Era: Ambassadors, United Nations World Wonder (2 free Ambassadors)

What do you think? Even if you built all of the wonders in the same city, you would still only get a +175% bonus (plus bonuses from Patronage tree, which, if reduced to 25% each, would net 50% more). In sum, if you completely focused on diplo. victory you could get 225% from buildings/policies alone, not including other DOMAIN_LAND-related bonuses. Its a lot, but if I adjust the diplo unit cost curve upwards, it will make diplo. victory without a few tiers of buildings impossible, which is what I want.
 
That could be interesting, though I'm not sure just how powerful and/or useful that would be. What did you have in mind, scenario wise? Perhaps I just don't see it.

I was thinking of the original rationale for the EIC discussed in the Balance - Diplomacy thread on page 10. It would allow diplo units some measure of safeguard while embarking toward newly discovered CSs across the globe (since the increased embark speed option is out) and have the additional benefit of making colonization a little easier/attractive since one wouldn't need such a large naval accompaniment. The EIC, iirc, wasn't a stranger to battle so giving civilian units a defensive ability could make some sense from a realism perspective as well.

Also, the 238% bonus is high, but I have bumped unit costs per era up quite a bit to compensate. Now, you really have to build the full tree if diplo buildings if you want to compete.

Cool, like I mentioned I haven't played recently so I must have missed that. (Keep in mind the 238% is before the Forge, Workshop, etc.) I'll refrain from further comments about this until I've played a recent version.:)
 
I was thinking of the original rationale for the EIC discussed in the Balance - Diplomacy thread on page 10. It would allow diplo units some measure of safeguard while embarking toward newly discovered CSs across the globe (since the increased embark speed option is out) and have the additional benefit of making colonization a little easier/attractive since one wouldn't need such a large naval accompaniment. The EIC, iirc, wasn't a stranger to battle so giving civilian units a defensive ability could make some sense from a realism perspective as well.



Cool, like I mentioned I haven't played recently so I must have missed that. (Keep in mind the 238% is before the Forge, Workshop, etc.) I'll refrain from further comments about this until I've played a recent version.:)

I see what you mean– for some reason I had it in my head that you were wanting to use diplo units to DEFEND. That's why I was confused. :)

What did you think of the plan I attached at the bottom of the last post? I'm going to work on it this weekend.
G
 
I'm playing CSD v15 with TBC v63 and have noticed an anomoly that I expect is a compatability issue.

I've selected the SP that provides a 20 pt minimum with all CS. As I proceeded to discover additional CS's, I noticed that my relationship was 0, not 20. This continued this way for about 50 turns or so, then all of a sudden, the 20 pt minimum started showing. I know this isn't enough info to isolate anything, but I thought I'd mention it so you could keep an eye out. I expect it has something to do with the addition of 1 culture for the Assembly you made to the policy in v15?
 
What do you think of allowing diplomatic units to pass through units not at war with you? The problem I'm having with TBC+CSD is the sheer number of CS units is making it near impossible to get a diplo unit into the CS territory.
 
I'm playing CSD v15 with TBC v63 and have noticed an anomoly that I expect is a compatability issue.

I've selected the SP that provides a 20 pt minimum with all CS. As I proceeded to discover additional CS's, I noticed that my relationship was 0, not 20. This continued this way for about 50 turns or so, then all of a sudden, the 20 pt minimum started showing. I know this isn't enough info to isolate anything, but I thought I'd mention it so you could keep an eye out. I expect it has something to do with the addition of 1 culture for the Assembly you made to the policy in v15?

Did you enable a new policy during that time? I think that Thal may have moved policies around in the tree and that the text I have in CSD doesn't match up with the mods from Thal's TBC.

What do you think of allowing diplomatic units to pass through units not at war with you? The problem I'm having with TBC+CSD is the sheer number of CS units is making it near impossible to get a diplo unit into the CS territory.

I think it is brilliant, though so far as I know there is no way to do this. If you have a solution, please enlighten me. I'll be working on CSD for a while today.
 
I see what you mean– for some reason I had it in my head that you were wanting to use diplo units to DEFEND. That's why I was confused. :)

What did you think of the plan I attached at the bottom of the last post? I'm going to work on it this weekend.
G

Well like I said, I'm hesitant to theory-craft, but the main thing for me is that I find it more fun to get unique or difficult-to-get results from Wonders, both National and World. One of the main things that disappoints me about civ5 is that the building lines are so one dimensional - I worry that it'll be a little underwhelming (or not exciting) with all the % diplo building % effects. So I'm still for the promotion idea I proposed above for the EIC, which I think should be a National Wonder (particularly because it existed in multiple countries IRL) for the Bank as originally conceived. I just think it'd be fun to try at least!:D (But of course if you're not into it, you're not into it - so no worries.)

The other proposed changes sound fine on paper; the only things that I'm not sure about:
Feast Hall doesn't jive well with me, not sure why. Could be the name. Maybe National Forum or somesuch instead?
Printing Press building - I think that may be a little too much science, maybe give some (or a percentage modifier) to the FO (representing industrial espionage;)).
 
Did you enable a new policy during that time? I think that Thal may have moved policies around in the tree and that the text I have in CSD doesn't match up with the mods from Thal's TBC.

That is probably it. I probably got the diplo prodn increase without noticing it when I selected the 20 pt min SP, then got the 20 pt min when I selected the diplo prodn increase 40 turns later...
 
Well like I said, I'm hesitant to theory-craft, but the main thing for me is that I find it more fun to get unique or difficult-to-get results from Wonders, both National and World. One of the main things that disappoints me about civ5 is that the building lines are so one dimensional - I worry that it'll be a little underwhelming (or not exciting) with all the % diplo building % effects. So I'm still for the promotion idea I proposed above for the EIC, which I think should be a National Wonder (particularly because it existed in multiple countries IRL) for the Bank as originally conceived. I just think it'd be fun to try at least!:D (But of course if you're not into it, you're not into it - so no worries.)

The other proposed changes sound fine on paper; the only things that I'm not sure about:
Feast Hall doesn't jive well with me, not sure why. Could be the name. Maybe National Forum or somesuch instead?
Printing Press building - I think that may be a little too much science, maybe give some (or a percentage modifier) to the FO (representing industrial espionage;)).

I've got some big changes in store...will post working version soon....
 
That is probably it. I probably got the diplo prodn increase without noticing it when I selected the 20 pt min SP, then got the 20 pt min when I selected the diplo prodn increase 40 turns later...

That would make sense. If you try it again, let me know.
 
Okay, so here's the new version of CSD. I completely reworked the file structure, breaking down the more labyrinthine XML files to make the mod more...modular.

I have also overhauled the mod's ENTIRE building/wonder system. Here's the new system:

Mod Philosophy: All diplomatic units are now exactly the same, except for cost. The basic unit (the Messenger) has a movement of two, no good promotions, and a bad promotion (sight penalty). All other diplo units have the same two movement and sight penalty.

So, the question is: how do you make these terrible units better? The answer: National Wonders! There are now four National Wonders in CSD, each with a special promotion that impacts movement, visibility, entering rival territory and ignoring terrain costs/impassable terrain. Each National Wonder is tied to a new basic building, each one dependent upon the previous era's building.

Buildings

Medieval Era: Meeting Hall --> Great Hall National Wonder (Available at Engineering)
Great Hall Bonus: Official Signet (+2 Movement, +1 Sight)​

Renaissance Era: Print Shop --> Newspaper Office National Wonder (Available at Printing Press)
Newspaper Office Bonus: Diplomatic Immunity (+1 Movement, Can Enter Rival Territory)​

Industrial Era: Train Station --> Foreign Office National Wonder (Available at Railroad)
Foreign Office Bonus: Railroad Logistics (+2 Movement, Ignore Terrain Penalty)​

Medieval Era: Embassy --> Diplomatic Residence National Wonder (Available at Electronics)
Diplomatic Residence Bonus: Digital Communications (+2 Movement, +1 Sight, Travel over Impassable Terrain)​

Each basic building grants +20% diplomatic unit production.

Each national wonder grants +30% diplomatic unit production.

The Meeting Hall/Great Hall have a Happiness bonus (+1 and +3 respectively)

The Press/Newspaper have a Science bonus (+5% and +10%, respectively)

The Train Station/Foreign Office have a Gold bonus (+5% and +10%, respectively)

The Embassy/Residence have a Culture bonus (+2 and +5, respectively)

Units

Units are roughly the same as previous, though they have been shuffled about a bit on the tech tree:

Messengers (Writing)
Envoys (Civil Service)
Emissaries (Banking)
Diplomats (Steam Power)
Ambassadors (Mass Media)

Policies

The Patronage Tree has been overhauled and gives culture bonuses to all four of the National Wonders as well as a +25% Diplo Bonus.
Aesthetics/Philanthropy: +2 to Great Hall and Newspaper Office, respectively
Scholasticism: +2 to Foreign Office
Cultural Diplomacy: +4 to Residence
Educated Elite: +25% diplo unit bonus

All bonuses are in addition to previous Patronage policies.

Other Changes

-The UN has been returned to Globalization on the tech tree.

-Philanthropy once again has its Gold-Influence modifier

-City-State power has been drastically reduced to make diplomacy easier (no more pathing problems...or at least LESS pathing problems).

-'Kill City-States' Quest can now be enabled (simply delete 'Quests.xml' from Gameplay folder).

-The WTO, EIC and Forum are gone. The former two have been eliminated because of AI inability to use them properly and the latter for flavor.

-The Paradrop promotion from the WTO is now gone- the AI couldn't use it, so it isn't fair.

- The Gold-Influence ratio is now more harsh than ever (17)

Testing

I tested the mod all day today and it runs pretty well. With Thal's Balance Mod enabled CSs were being allied en masse by 0AD with gold and units (mainly the latter). The AI is competent and uses the new national wonders well, often stacking them in the same city for maximum benefit. AIs that have no interest in diplomacy do not build the new buildings until later in the game, and even then just for the other bonuses (science, gold, etc.).

Balance

I know what you are all wondering: this is great, Gazebo, but what does it all cost? I realize 8 buildings means a lot more time spent building diplo stuff, and all that diplo stuff can get expensive. I have made sure to reduce the cost of diplo units and buildings so that they are an investment but they are not cripplingly hard to handle. The key problem for players will be dependencies: each new building in CSD is important because all future buildings are reliant upon it (i.e. if you really want the Foreign Office, you will need to not only have Train Stations in every city, but also Halls and Print Shops). So plan ahead!

To-Do List
Unique Art for all buildings except the Hall and the Foreign Office.​
New French and Italian translations for the new buildings/policies.​
A World Wonder for the Ancient/Classical Age (Via Appia, maybe?)​


Conclusions

Please download the new version and let me know what you think! CSD, in my opinion, has never been better!
 
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