City State Diplomacy Mod (Updated)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Oct 18, 2010.

  1. ExpiredReign

    ExpiredReign Deity

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    Thanks for the UI update info.

    I really wouldn't take too much interest in what the state of the CEP policies are right now. I've begun a major redo of most of the project and first on the list of changes are the policies. There are a lot of boosts that negatively impact on ideologies or are just plain weird! and we will be trying to adjust them all.

    On the aspect of settlers/colonists/pioneers. Is it possible to do a check somehow for the player's current tech level and give the settler type unit based on that? Or, perhaps a better way, what about making them all of the same UNITCLASS and give the free units using Policy_FreeUnitClasses? [I have no idea what I was thinking.]

    About the timing of the tech changes. All that was done way before my time I'm afraid and I haven't paid too much attention to how it differs from vanilla. I probably should.
    CEP's tech tree has changed a lot, so I guess the entire thing advances more quickly than vanilla. Compass does thematically fit though.
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    No worries. CSD is going to sit at v23 for some time, so if you need or desire any help with CEP, let me know.
    G
     
  3. whoward69

    whoward69 DLL Minion

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    I'll believe that in a couple of weeks and you haven't "tweaked" anything (like you did when v22, v21, v20 ... were stable :mischief:)
     
  4. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    I'm currently in a game with v22, will updating to v23 break that saved game?

    Thanks in advance, & thanks again for all your amazing hard work :).

    Aussie.
     
  5. whoward69

    whoward69 DLL Minion

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    See post #1804

    "As always, this version is not savegame compatible, so please save your old version of CSD (v22) if you need it for an older game."
     
  6. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    Thanks for that :).
     
  7. Spheniscine

    Spheniscine Chieftain

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    @Gazebo: I first brought this up in the Communitas forum, but @ExpiredReign asked me to bring it up here since he feels you know more about the technical side of it:

    One thing I feel is missing is options when the AI gets worried about troops near their borders. They're essentially forcing you to either declare war then and there (which you might not be committed to doing yet, and lets them get the first shot), or promise they're just "passing through"... I'm not sure whether that's a promise not to attack them (which you might not want to promise if you're, perhaps, not really wanting to attack, but might if you see any "bad behavior" like settling where you wanted to, attacking city states you're protecting, or going for spaceship victory), or to actually move the troops (which you may not want to do if they're primarily for defense). Breaking a promise is a negative global diplomacy modifier (even among those who dislike the petitioning civ), and there is no way to ask the AI a similar question. This is also more problematic if it happens when you promised another AI to simultaneously declare on the petitioning civ after 10 turns, since you can't get them to declare war with you as planned without lying.

    Therefore in my opinion there should be a third button, perhaps "They are performing military exercises." or "We station our troops wherever we want." - this should give an immediate huge negative modifier with the petitioning civ, which may even be enough to provoke war, but won't count as a global promise. (Similar to "We settle where we please", but perhaps more since it's basically a refusal to promise not to attack. I believe there is already a modifier we could use, something like "They asked you to move your troops and you refused!", which appears if you chose the "war" option.)
     
  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    There's another option we could pursue, that is we could more heavily weight the 'lie' of saying you are just passing through (when you aren't) based on friendship with other civs. In short, we might have a random roll which is weighted based on friendship or ideological/religious alliances. If the roll goes over the threshold, you incur the penalty. If not, you don't. Thoughts?
    G
     
  9. Spheniscine

    Spheniscine Chieftain

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    That could be another way to do it - though such weighting should probably apply to all promises (like promises not to settle near), not just this. The way the Civ IV Diplomacy mod handles it looks like it could be an option as well, as it makes things more symmetrical by allowing you to ask the AIs about their massed troops as well (and similarly, they can promise to move them away, promise neutrality, or declare war).
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    The less we can rely on the AI to be 'binary rational' the better. In other words, asking the AI a yes/no question (or letting them answer a yes/no question) can sometimes result in bizarre behavior, just because it can be so hard to get the code to match the likely or needed outcome. See, for example, the oddities of the WC voting process (Civs propose something, then they shoot down their own proposal).

    Applying more granular logic to all promises makes a lot of sense, honestly. As a player, for example, there are times that an AI's broken promise doesn't matter to you (if they backstab your enemy, who cares?). The same kind of logic should apply to the AI's view of the player. Too much of the AI's opinion-creation is driven by static numbers (number of broken promises, number of attacked city-states, etc.).

    I'll add this to the list of to-dos for the Community Patch.
    Cheers,
    G
     
  11. Spheniscine

    Spheniscine Chieftain

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    Hey, I did that once too. It was "Ban Luxury: Crabs", but within the deliberation period I captured a city with crabs, so then I killed my own resolution :p
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Indeed - it isn't always bizarre, but the vast majority of time, such behavior is outside of the norm. I hope to have time next week to dive back into the dll a bit more.

    I've heard very little thus far regarding the release of v23 - I assume this is because it is 100% perfect, and it is problem-free? (Hardly!)

    I am going to re-upload a version of v23 with better compression on the art files, in order to reduce the size of the mod to a more manageable level (per an excellent suggestion by whoward).

    G
     
  13. thanerion

    thanerion Chieftain

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    AI tweaks result in some strange things - one time AIs enter classical era before anyone builds Great Library and Hanging Gardens is done by turn 90 (epic speed), one time nothing out of the ordinairy happens. The population bonus for AI also seems a bit too big and either causing issues (great unhappiness) or strange results (AI with good access to luxuries suddenly ahead of the game even more than they were before, and boni keeping them there until he is burned to the ground).
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    There is much variability in the AI's performance early on (which I personally find more enjoyable than the guaranteed 'AI will build x by x turn' nature of the standard difficulties). I've seen the AI launch impressive early wars on this system, and I've also seen the AI suffer greatly.

    Happiness is definitely king, which is problematic at any level of civ gameplay. That said, these difficulty changes were included more on a whim than anything else - feel free to disable them via the options.sql file. I'll keep messing with the tweaks as time goes on, but they are simply an interesting diversion for me.

    Cheers,
    G
     
  15. ATG

    ATG Chieftain

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    Hi,

    Whats the method for removing a rivals embassy in a city state?

    I placed a rifleman on the city state's tile with the embassy and then declared war on the cs but I have no option to pillage the tile. Then I declared war on the civ that owned the embassy but still no dice.
     
  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    v23 removed the option to pillage an embassy, as the AI was not capable of understanding how to perform the operation correctly (or tactically). I need to update the first post for this, sorry about the confusion.
    G
     
  17. ATG

    ATG Chieftain

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    Ok, that explains it.

    Thanks for the response.

    Btw, been enjoying your mod ever since it was released.
     
  18. Argentino

    Argentino Chieftain

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    G, is there a reason why the AI won't improve their luxuries until they reach medieval eras?

    It may be my impression, this happens in vanilla Civ, so it's not CSD related.

    Cheers.
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Glad to hear it!

    Any other mods being used? I don't seem to encounter this problem.
    G
     
  20. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

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    so I had another crazy idea.

    Make allied status harder by completing three relationship areas after achieving friend status:

    economic relationship - trade route
    military relationship - basing troops in territory
    diplomatic relationship - send a diplomat

    if we go more indepth we can add financial aid (gold ever turn) and military aid (gift units every turn) for x number of turns.
     

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