Upon the release of the game, pretty much everyone thought that maritime city-states were the best by far. Subsequent patching did little to address the disparity. But is this still true in Brave New World? Culture is much harder to come by but as far as I can tell Cultural City-States still give the same amount of culture as before. Even if they don't, as a proportion of the culture you're likely to have in the game City-State culture is much higher in BNW. Happiness is also now much harder to come by, making mercantile City-States a very good option. Meanwhile, maritime City-States have been indirectly nerfed because the food bonus you receive from them is towered by what you can get from cargo ships. So, thoughts on the new City-State hierarchy? Where would you rank the four City-States in Brave New World?
City States - are maritime civs still the best?
- Thread starter mrwho
- Start date
Depending ofc a little on what civ you play. Overall though, I always focus on maritime city states before any else.
Just because you can get food from caravans doesn't mean the food form CS's isn't worthwhile =)
Maritime > cultural > merchantile > military > religious
Just because you can get food from caravans doesn't mean the food form CS's isn't worthwhile =)
Maritime > cultural > merchantile > military > religious
True_Candyman
Emperor
Military city states are worse now IMO, war plays less of a role and you can't afford the upkeep of a rapidly growing army (at least early on).
Maritime states are much less important now with internal trade routes as you say, but it's still something, and an extra something is always good for growth.
Religious city states are really good if you want a religion early on, and i've found them to be great for faith purchasing GWAMs late game. The little faith boost on finding them is great for pantheon founding as ever too.
Mercantile are still good for the happiness, but i've found i can usually get enough from other city states with diverse resources.
Culture city states have always come across nicely to me, and now with ideologies they are fantastic. Culture is really important.
I would say culture and religion are (generally speaking) my two top ones now, changing positions as the game develops and changes through the ages. After that, mercantile and maritime and then military down at the bottom. Maritime goes a little higher if i can't get the hanging gardens though.
Maritime states are much less important now with internal trade routes as you say, but it's still something, and an extra something is always good for growth.
Religious city states are really good if you want a religion early on, and i've found them to be great for faith purchasing GWAMs late game. The little faith boost on finding them is great for pantheon founding as ever too.
Mercantile are still good for the happiness, but i've found i can usually get enough from other city states with diverse resources.
Culture city states have always come across nicely to me, and now with ideologies they are fantastic. Culture is really important.
I would say culture and religion are (generally speaking) my two top ones now, changing positions as the game develops and changes through the ages. After that, mercantile and maritime and then military down at the bottom. Maritime goes a little higher if i can't get the hanging gardens though.
Awhile ago, Maritime CSs were patched to not provide any benefit to cities other than your capital unless you were allies...which did some to address the imbalance. They are still quite useful, but not clearly the best IMHO.
I would disagree with military being worse than at the beginning. Now, units they gift you start within your borders, and it seems to me they are somewhat more frequent. You can now "turn off" their gifting ability at any point in time, and later you can "turn on" the gifting ability again (as long as you are at least friends, of course). I don't see how that can possibly be worse than the forced unit that started within the military CS's borders... I have had uses for them on a few occasions -- most recently as Assyria, which allowed me to focus on buildings in some cities (units in others, supplemented by military CSs)...in particular, some of my cities could focus on culture (which is now important to defend against the AI).
Cultural CSs were always toward the top of my list, and are more important now for three primary reasons: (1) policies are now cheaper in BNW, (2) there are a lot more choices for policy benefits (due to ideologies added with BNW, and the finishers added about a year ago), and (3) policies defend against an opponent's culture victory in BNW.
Religious CSs are nice at first -- they grant you faith that could get you a pantheon started easier even if you don't want to take time otherwise to build any faith-generating buildings. They are somewhat less important in general after enhancing a religion, but they still can be very useful, especially since great people can be bought with faith in the Industrial era (or later)...the type of great person depends on finished policies.
I would disagree with military being worse than at the beginning. Now, units they gift you start within your borders, and it seems to me they are somewhat more frequent. You can now "turn off" their gifting ability at any point in time, and later you can "turn on" the gifting ability again (as long as you are at least friends, of course). I don't see how that can possibly be worse than the forced unit that started within the military CS's borders... I have had uses for them on a few occasions -- most recently as Assyria, which allowed me to focus on buildings in some cities (units in others, supplemented by military CSs)...in particular, some of my cities could focus on culture (which is now important to defend against the AI).
Cultural CSs were always toward the top of my list, and are more important now for three primary reasons: (1) policies are now cheaper in BNW, (2) there are a lot more choices for policy benefits (due to ideologies added with BNW, and the finishers added about a year ago), and (3) policies defend against an opponent's culture victory in BNW.
Religious CSs are nice at first -- they grant you faith that could get you a pantheon started easier even if you don't want to take time otherwise to build any faith-generating buildings. They are somewhat less important in general after enhancing a religion, but they still can be very useful, especially since great people can be bought with faith in the Industrial era (or later)...the type of great person depends on finished policies.
I think bang for the buck cultural ones are now the best, with culture buildings nerfed the 26 culture from an allied CS is huge. Maritime is nice, but unless they are allied they are not as worthwhile. Military actually yields less units after the expansion.
samuelgrigolato
Chieftain
I usually have a lot of difficulty keeping city-states as friends/allies.. does it solely depends on luck with the quests they give you or maybe there's something that I'm doing wrong?
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azzaman333
meh
Can't go wrong with either Maritime or Cultural CS allies.
You pay them. Also time the quests you can to maximize time as ally
NukeAJS
King
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 850
All-around -- yes, maritime is best.
However, if given a choice to help one CS over another, it really depends on what era I'm in.
Religious CSs are amazing in the beginning of the game if you want a religion. It can shave a good 10-20 turns off founding a religion, getting that first missionary, second GP etc. In addition, once you found a religion, they usually want that religion to come to them so they're easy to keep as allies once their usefulness starts to fade.
Cultural CSs are great after the first SP tree is completed, which is pretty easy, but after archeology. An allied CS or two can greatly help getting those early-mid SPs. This is especially important if you want to complete exploration or commerce before ideologies.
Mercantile CSs excel whenever you want a quick-fix for happiness so I often seek their favor when I'm doing some warmongering and before ideologies.
Militristic CSs are still the weakest. It's neat that in G&Ks they added the ability to give a UU, but the problem is that you get one every 17 turns. So by the time you get the third unit, it's already obsolete. However, some units are really worth getting as many as possible and then upgrading. Janissaries and minutemen come to mind immediately as do longbows and chu-ku-nus. My last Persia game I had a CS giving me Pracinha
The big exception to this is if you go autocracy and ally all the militaristic CSs with the united front tenet. That cuts down the time to 9 turns and the CSs often give units that are valuable, but I typically don't build (I'm thinking of you AA-gun). One of these days I'd like to do that with a militaristic CS that gives me panzers ...
However, if given a choice to help one CS over another, it really depends on what era I'm in.
Religious CSs are amazing in the beginning of the game if you want a religion. It can shave a good 10-20 turns off founding a religion, getting that first missionary, second GP etc. In addition, once you found a religion, they usually want that religion to come to them so they're easy to keep as allies once their usefulness starts to fade.
Cultural CSs are great after the first SP tree is completed, which is pretty easy, but after archeology. An allied CS or two can greatly help getting those early-mid SPs. This is especially important if you want to complete exploration or commerce before ideologies.
Mercantile CSs excel whenever you want a quick-fix for happiness so I often seek their favor when I'm doing some warmongering and before ideologies.
Militristic CSs are still the weakest. It's neat that in G&Ks they added the ability to give a UU, but the problem is that you get one every 17 turns. So by the time you get the third unit, it's already obsolete. However, some units are really worth getting as many as possible and then upgrading. Janissaries and minutemen come to mind immediately as do longbows and chu-ku-nus. My last Persia game I had a CS giving me Pracinha
The big exception to this is if you go autocracy and ally all the militaristic CSs with the united front tenet. That cuts down the time to 9 turns and the CSs often give units that are valuable, but I typically don't build (I'm thinking of you AA-gun). One of these days I'd like to do that with a militaristic CS that gives me panzers ...
Cicerosaurus
Emperor
I'm almost the odd one out in going for Religious CS's- if you have cathedrals, pagodas etc they assist so much. Plus they contribute to your great artists, writers, whatever once you complete aesthetics.
A bonus is that the AI does not seem as interested in them.
A bonus is that the AI does not seem as interested in them.
Really it depends on the situation but my personal ranking is
Cultural - best bang for your buck
Mercantile - can save infrastructure time/cost
Maritime/Maritime/Religious - Honestly all three of these types underwhelm me unless I have a specific need
Also, I try to ally neighboring CS's from about late Medieval on as a CS ally on your border is an excellent way to hedge against AI aggression.
Cultural - best bang for your buck
Mercantile - can save infrastructure time/cost
Maritime/Maritime/Religious - Honestly all three of these types underwhelm me unless I have a specific need
Also, I try to ally neighboring CS's from about late Medieval on as a CS ally on your border is an excellent way to hedge against AI aggression.
Muskie
Warlord
I disagree. The ones with the most or best resources make the best allies. I'd rather have free coal/alluminum/oil than extra food. Early in the game, regligious are probably the best allies as you want to get your religion founded ASAP. Finding them first helps too. Early faith is important. So my dream ally CS would probably be religious with two different luxuries and say coal. That is a city state worth defending.
After industrialization I can find or trade for other strategic resources, but researching industrialization and not having coal sucks, so I look at the City States and buy an ally who will just give me coal, assuming I have the gold to do that.
I also ally with City States to take them away from the AI or give them a war on two fronts. Sometimes I just do all the easy quests and take what the computer gives me, but when buying an ally, I look for resources they provide, everything else is less important to me.
After industrialization I can find or trade for other strategic resources, but researching industrialization and not having coal sucks, so I look at the City States and buy an ally who will just give me coal, assuming I have the gold to do that.
I also ally with City States to take them away from the AI or give them a war on two fronts. Sometimes I just do all the easy quests and take what the computer gives me, but when buying an ally, I look for resources they provide, everything else is less important to me.
chazzycat
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 2,918
it's very dependent on your strategy.
maritime is quite good most of the time, but if you play wide happiness is more of a concern than food so I'd go for mercantiles first in that situation.
Cultural city states are just universally helpful...I can't think of any situation where I wouldn't want more culture.
maritime is quite good most of the time, but if you play wide happiness is more of a concern than food so I'd go for mercantiles first in that situation.
Cultural city states are just universally helpful...I can't think of any situation where I wouldn't want more culture.
Tiggurix
Warlord
I have almost the same list of priorities as you, except I tend to prioritise Religious CSs before military ones, especially if I'm trying to found a Religion, obviously.
Seabastian Civ
King
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
- Messages
- 608
militaristic are good when they give a UU you can actually employ. Kinda blows when you play poland and they give you hakkapelitae. Battering rams would be great
In hundreds of hours, I've never gotten- let alone seen- a CS battering ram.
I believe it matters a great deal when you're allying.
Ancient Era: Religious > Cultural = Maritime > Mercantile > Military
Classical: Cultural = Religious = Maritime > Mercantile > Military
Medieval: Maritime = Mercantile > Cultural > Military > Religious
Renaissance: Maritime > Mercantile > Cultural > Military > Religious
Industrial: Mercantile > Maritime > Cultural = Military > Religious
Modern: Cultural (for ideologies) > Mercantile > Maritime > Military > Religious
Atomic and Later: Cultural (for ideologies) > Mercantile > Military > Maritime > Religious
My rationale:
(C) Getting an ancient religious CS ally basically gets you a religion on most difficulties- a great boon to any game.
(M) A classical religion is still a great help to any game, but getting policies is supremely important here.
(R) It's time to grow your empire and you need food and happiness to do so.
(I) Happiness starts to bite here- getting a few more industrial era cities up/supporting a few more puppets is great.
(M) Ideologies are so powerful you will want as much culture as possible (especially if beelining to Foreign Legions).
(A) More ideologies and more happiness- will only help any game. Large standing armies are finally feasible now, too.
True_Candyman
Emperor
In hundreds of hours, I've never gotten- let alone seen- a CS battering ram.
I believe it matters a great deal when you're allying.
I'm pretty sure there are no ancient era CS uniques. I've never seen a CS battering ram, jaguar, maori, slinger, immortal, hoplite, companion cavalry, war elephant etc...
I'd consider mercantile to be better than maritime in wider/dom games. The extra growth is just going to throw useless pop. onto crap cities and drain happiness where as a mercantile CS with two unique luxuries will be good for two more cities to conquer.
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