City states become wary

Those who don't know won't get mad because they won't find out, innit

 

Declare war on ally, city state declares war on you.

Steal their worker. Propose peace with ally.

City states won't get more wary. But the AIs would be.

 

Back when I first played the tutorial, I conquered the entire map including all of the CSes I met. I do remember that after I conquered a few of them, the rest declared war on me. But I think there were only two left at that point. That was only with the G&K expansion, no BNW, so maybe things have changed since then.

 

I am pretty sure that CS being wary penalty applies even to CS that you have not met. Maybe if you killed two CS before meeting any others? Has anyone experimented with this?

 

If you start war with AI civilizations, any pet city states that support the AI civilization you're fighting is fair game to being annexed. Alexander have 10+ City states? Dow on Alexander and capture them all then laugh at him for failing to protect the city states. Its alexander's fault for failing to protect them after he pledged to protect.

However if you dow on a unaligned city state, this will make city states wary of you. Or even allied city states of the AI civilization, as you dow on lhasa, but not the allied Siam. Lhasa's demise will lead to other city states being wary of you and angering Siam.

I hope this helps.

 

This is bad advise. No, it does not make the CS wary. What it does though is get you lots and lots of warmonger hate. Just not worth it.

 

I believe it is good for people that don't care about warmonger hate like going for domination etc. And the way AI use their armies in Civ5 makes warmonger hate not worrisome when they cannot fight well at all.

 

Good for you if you can play without having to care about warmonger hate, but I don’t think that is characteristic of most players!

 

I don't much care about warmonger hate but then I don't waste my time capturing CS. If I am not able to prevent the alliance, then I just have a couple of units making sure the CS doesn't make any mischief for me. The worst one is if I have to go through their land and I can't ally them. Then I MIGHT capture, but I'd sell it to someone who isn't likely to DoW me, or keep it as a puppet for a while, and then sell it. But if they are on my sweep route then I usually have more than enough dosh to buy them as MY ally, before I DoW their current ally. They might even join in and help me!

 

Sorry for the thread necro guys, but I figured that would be better then making a new thread. I was unaware of this until I triggered it (foolishly) and it contributed to me losing a game that should have been my first Immortal win. It was silly really, I already had one worker, I was a few turns from completing the Pyramids and I had every intention of going down the right side of Liberty (citizenship?) thus getting another worker. I really didn't need the worker but it was easily available so I snagged it. That cost me quite a bit of gold from meeting city states in a game where every penny counted. It also cost me alliances due to the faster decay rate. I think it also hurt my resting point, can anyone confirm that?

 

It's limited to only the CSes you met.

So say you meet just two militaristic CSes, you can both DOW them and wont suffer the wary aka "-20" rest status nor the bigger reduction of influence per turn on those you meet after your 2 DOWs.

For CS gold present, no idea really

 

Thanks. As far as the gold gifts when you meet a new city state I'm positive you lose them for the rest of the game. It was extremely frustrating when I researched optics (which I'd delayed) and later Astronomy and met CS after CS that gave me nothing. Some would have been 30, most only 15 but I met a good 7-8 of them when I was running a -3 to -5 per turn deficit. That alone isn't what doomed me; I took too long to get my frigates in the water and I made some questionable social policy decisions. It still made life a bit harder then it needed to be though.

 

Yes, it goes to -20. It really is a game-killing penalty that you will not know until you stumble into it.

That is not correct, as Mr. S explained with his experience. It makes no sense that the CS communicate warmongering better than the AIs, but that is how it works.

 

Thanks for this post. I really wish I'd payed more attention to exactly what happened in that game, but I felt sure that my CS relationships were hurting me big time. Do I have it correct? Once the CS are "wary" you no longer get gifts from meeting them, your rest point sinks to -20 and your influence decays at x2?

 

Yes, you have that all correct. They will still offer quests, take gifts, etc. -- but good money after bad and all that. I think a 3rd CS DOW has no further effect, but the 4th CS DOW means a permanent state of war with all CS.

 

Thanks Beetle! I've been lurking long enough to know you're a serious player and that just explained a lot to me.

 

I think city-state permanent war was removed in BNW. The worst that can happen is -20 to the resting point of all city-states. So you can declare war on city-states a thousand times and they will not declare permanent war on you. However, the AI will hate your guts due to your accumulated warmongering penalty.

 

I think there may be a list that appears that shows which city states are affected by -20 and double decay, but I am not sure and need to test all of this myself in the current game that I just discovered this on. I am glad this thread came back from the dead, I just DOW'ed two city states and suffered this and was trying to figure out how and why it happened. There are more details here I think, and a lot more to this mechanic than meets the eye, but I think just picking one city state close to you to ambush a worker or three from between turns 10-30 is the best approach at any level.

Someone asked about the awesome Autocracy Tenet earlier in this thread, and that is Gunboat Diplomacy! My personal favorite for a late game diplomacy victory, if you can make it up to XCOMS and take this level 3 tenet, than just 1 XCOM positioned near a city state will give you the power to demand tribute, which scares their influence level up 6 per turn. If that city state is neutral, you will be their ally in 10 turns. Obviously there are much better uses for XCOMS and Autocracy than this, but its another option.

 

Please do share if you find that it is not all of them!

I have never been able to get much out of Gunboat Diplomacy. I thought there were other caveats, like that your military had to be #1 or #2? Late game, I could spare an XCOM if it really that easy...

 

A single Battering Ram with one Scout was enough to scare a city state once but in a different game 6 Keshiks weren't. Also I kind of dislike how the "afraid" status works, you can kill off their entire military, have them dead to rights and you still won't be able to get tribute because IIRC it doesn't seem to work when in the red