[NFP] City-States Elimination Thread

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Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [7]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [16]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [10]
Geneva [15]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [8]
Kumasi [15]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Mitla [1] (4-3) Just a bad, bland, boring bonus.
Muscat [8]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [6]
Ngazargamu [7] (6+1) Can't believe this one is so underrated. If you have any kind of economy or can faith purchase units, this CS gives you terrifying purchasing power that can be used to raise an offensive or defensive army.
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [10]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [7]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [16]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [10]
Geneva [12] (15-3) +15% science is great, but all it takes is one civ on the opposite side of the world declaring war on you, and suddenly this bonus does absolutely nothing. An irrational AI can declare war on you for any number of reasons, and a rational human player is strongly incentivized to declare war on you because it denies you this bonus.
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [8]
Kumasi [15]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Mitla [1]
Muscat [8]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [7] (6+1) This isn't going to make desert tiles good (at least in the absence of other bonuses), but it can add plenty of yields to more attractive tiles on the edges of deserts.
Ngazargamu [7]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [10]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [7]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [16]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [10]
Geneva [13] (12+1) Geneva gives the best potential science generation of any city state in the game by far.
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [8]
Kumasi [15]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Mitla [0] (1-3) Eliminated A +15% growth modifier is barely noticeable, as population is mostly constrained by housing caps and Mitla's bonus growth only applies to the food surplus. Any of the city states giving amenities or with a unique improvement increasing housing are going to help cities grow as fast or faster than Mitla and will boost other yields as well.
Muscat [8]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [7]
Ngazargamu [7]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [10]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [7]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [16]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez 7[10-3] You need to get that religion and get this city state from the beginning. Otherwise I think you'll get more science declaring war and pillaging its campus.
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [8]
Kumasi [15]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [8]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca 8 [7+1] By far not the best, but it's fun. You need to invest some builder charges, and it can make desert cities look good.
Ngazargamu [7]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [10]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]

Edit: There are some here I've never seen in a game so far. Is Akkad like an invisible battering ram from before GS?
 
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Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [7]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17] (16+1) Babylon can be a great tool to catch up on science in a cultural game. Less so on religious games, still serviceable.
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [7]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5] (8-3) I will admit the satisfaction rush when you get lucky with the world map generation is amazing, but it is just so situational due to either finding wonders before the city state, having wonders locked on other continents, or finding wonders without relic slots available. It can be hard to justify spending envoys on a gamble. The 50% faith bonus mitigates bad luck a tad, but the inconsistency can be too hard of a pill to swallow.
Kumasi [15]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [8]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [8]
Ngazargamu [7]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [10]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [7]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [7]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5]
Kumasi [15]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [5] (8 - 3) And now the question is how many commercial hubs do you want to build in your empire? At least for how I play now, early on, I don't build many commercial hubs.
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [9] (8 + 1)
While Nazca is largely considered meme-tier, I think they are awesome in some scenarios; creating crazy high appeal seaside resorts or national parks. Can be absolute bonkers for culture games.

Ngazargamu [7]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [10]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
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Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [7]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [7]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5]
Kumasi [15]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [5]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [9] (8 + 1)
Ngazargamu [8] 7+1 Ngazargamu with a Military Academy costs about the same to produce a brand new unit as to upgrade an existing unit. With Faith pillaging and Faith purchasing from GMC you're not just replacing units cheaply on the front lines, you're immediately creating a new attacking force to speed up your conquest.
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [7] 10-3 The average game will see this only being used to convert your cities, which should already be converted if you're pursuing a religious victory.
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [16]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [4] (7-3) Better than Bandar Brunei, but not by a lot. Probably an extra +1 or +2 gold in the early game, maybe rising to +3 or +4 later on. These yields are fine, but hardly exceptional (unlike, IMO, Kumasi).
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [7]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [15]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5]
Kumasi [16] (15+1) Didn't want to have to upvote Kumasi again, and I'm fine in principle with people questioning their utility: for example, enKage pointed out that if you lose the suzerainty and can't regain it, e.g. if Kumasi is killed, then you're left waiting for a bunch of average trade routes to expire (a problem that can be circumvented by sending them all to one city-state and declaring war on its suzerain, which returns you the trade routes). However, someone said Kumasi should have been eliminated by now. I can't agree with that. I've already explained my reasoning on page three – basically, LOADS of culture, VERY early on – and I shall point out that both PotatoMcWhiskey and SaxyGamer rate Kumasi very highly in their respective videos on city-states. Check 'em out.
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [5]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [7] I've never made use of Vatican but it seems quite underwhelming. 400 pressure is equivalent to, what, one or two missionary charges?
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17] (16+1) Can make a huge difference to mid-game conquering. Laugh as your pikemen inexplicably headbutt their way through Tamar's walls. Pretty useless in non-domination games, mind ...
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [4]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [7]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [12] (15-3) am I allowed to touch Hong Kong yet... (*nervous laugh*)? I'm glad drivingrevilo brought up SaxyGamer, I was watching his videos for inspiration before I started the thread and I highly recommend the city-states ones. Saxy says similar to me about Hong Kong: taking the space race out of the equation, for the vast majority of the game district projects are not something you bother to run unless you have nothing else to use your production on, and they only take a few turns to complete. Now I get that it's a different equation entirely for the space race projects. But that's at the very end of the game, plus, I'm usually so far ahead that 20% faster is irrelevant. So for 95% of your game time, all Hong Kong can offer is an occasional one / two turns off a project which, most likely, you're only running for the sake of it. Looking at some of the other states being downvoted – e.g. Geneva with its universal science boost for peaceful games, or Buenos Aires with its universal amenities boost – I firmly think Hong Kong has to start losing points.
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [5]
Nan Madol [18]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [7]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [4]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [7]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [12]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [5]
Nan Madol [19] (18+1) When I come across a CS I tend to have one of four reactions: i) a sense of disappointment; ii) a shrug; iii) a smile, or; iv) rub my hands together. Nan Madol is a hand-rubber of a CS. The culture benefits can come early and build throughout the game which benefits every victory condition.
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [4] (7-3) I can see how this bonus would be useful in a few situations as you can consolidate your own religion/apply pressure without having to spend faith but I would still rather have the bonus of any other CS remaining on this list.
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
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Changed my vote (apologies) until I do some more research.

Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [4]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [18]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8] (7+1) - A cherry on top of the existing benefits of spreading your religion
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [12]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2] (5-3) - You have to have a commercial hub and you only get 1 amenity. Not bad by any means, but I just don't a ton of hubs outside of a few main cities, at least early on. These main cities, such as my capital, are less likely to have amenity problems due to things like wonders.
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [4]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
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Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [4]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [19] (18+1) can't scoff at cheaper wonders, can you.
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [9] (12-3) rarely run district projects so its pretty pointless for me. The one project it could be useful for, great prophets, comes too early to enter the equation, leaving only the very end of a science game – not a big deal.
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [5]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [4]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [1] (3-1) An ok effect but there are more impactful options
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [19]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [13]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [9]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [6] (5+1) I'll throw a second bone here. I love city states which allow you to change your strategy when you encounter them and Kandy is the poster child for those...
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [4]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [1]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [19]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [14] (13+1) A pretty easy +15% boost to science that takes little to no effort on the part of the player, and while the AI can sabotage it for ten turns by declaring war I still think it deserves an upvote.
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [9]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [3] (6-3) I get that this is potentially game changing in the right circumstances, but I've still got to vote it down. How often is the map generator really going to give you a situation where you can take advantage of this? Not often. And it's not like this is the only route to getting relics from a city state - you can get them from Yerevan, too, with a little more work but a far easier time doing it on your own terms.
Kumasi [16] TBH if I'm playing a game where I'm planning on taking advantage of this there's no way I'm losing this bonus in the first place - I'll have puppeteer Amani there and spare the six (at most) units it takes to keep it from ever being captured. It's worth both of those to me.
La Venta [17]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [10]
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [4]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [1]
Auckland [17]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [19]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [14]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [9]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [3]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [18] (17+1) Heads, baybee! Tourists love these heads! They'll fly from anywhere to come see 'em
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [7] (10-3) It's just not gonna get you that much science
Valletta [17]
Vatican City [4]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [1]
Auckland [18] (17+1) My personal favourite, since I love settling coastal and playing with my navy.
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [19]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [14]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [9]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [3]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [15] (18-3) Other tile improvements seem better.
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [7]
Valletta [18]
Vatican City [4]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]

I noticed this thread very late yesterday, this would be a normal posting time. :)
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [1]
Auckland [18]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [19]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [14]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [10] (9 + 1): Some of y'all don't really understand how good City Projects can be, and it shows. If you can afford to squeeze them into the production queue, they can be really, really helpful, and Hong Kong just makes them easier to use. On top of that, all of the Space Race Projects are considered as City Projects, making Hong Kong incredibly helpful in a Science Victory. Also good for any player that wants to play for the World Congress competitions, and can be good for Send Aid projects in a Diplomatic game. Should be much higher in my opinion.
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [3]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [15]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]: Not going to upvote this one, because I'd prefer to not throw away my vote. But to make a case for not eliminated Muscat too soon, consider the following. Yes, the ability isn't insanely powerful, but it is a very consistent one. You're going to be building a Commercial Hub in every city that doesn't have a Harbor, so their ability essentially translates to an extra amenity per city. Is that game breaking? No, of course not, and it's straight up an inferior version of Zanzibar's bonus. Is it helpful and easy to make use of? Certainly.
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [7]
Valletta [18]
Vatican City [1] (4 - 3): This ability is similar version of Jerusalem, in the sense that this bonus is only going to be useful closer to your borders. Honestly, I might even consider Jerusalem better, since their bonus is more reliable. However, I think I'd give the edge to Vatican City because there are some Great People that you can pick where you want to activate them. That said, this is easily the most niche ability left in the pool, and it more than deserves to go.
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [1]
Auckland [18]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [16] (19-3) How many wonders can you reasonably expect to build in a competitive game? How much time do your cities spend building those wonders relative to districts, buildings and units? 15% is not an impressive modifier when it applies to such a small percentage of your overall production.
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [14]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [10]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [3]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [15]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [8] (7 +1) I'd argue this is the stronger of the two science percentage modifiers. It'll give you less the Geneva's theoretical 15% in most cities, but unlike Geneva, it doesn't literally come with the option built in for any player to deny it to you at any time.
Valletta [18]
Vatican City [1]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Antioch [1-3=ELIMINATED] 1 gold per luxury is just way too weak. If someone steals this from you, you probably won't notice.
Auckland [19] (18+1) An absolute necessity if you're playing a coastal civ, in which there are plenty in game. It's a city state that you will sacrifice envoys to suzerain other city states in order to keep hold of this one.
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [16]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [14]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [4]
Hong Kong [10]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [3]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [15]
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [8]
Valletta [18]
Vatican City [1]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
Akkad [17]
Antananarivo [19]
Auckland [19]
Babylon [17]
Bologna [19]
Buenos Aires [14]
Brussels [16]
Caguana [16]
Cahokia [17]
Fez [8]
Geneva [14]
Granada [16]
Hattusa [1] (4 - 3) + 2 unimproved strategic resource per turn is quite pathetic.
Hong Kong [10]
Hunza [16]
Kabul [16]
Kandy [3]
Kumasi [16]
La Venta [16] (15 +1) Colossal head is very synergistic with culture vics giving you tourism with faith yields and those faith can be used to purchase more national parks, rock bands and great people.
Lahore [18]
Muscat [2]
Nan Madol [19]
Nazca [9]
Ngazargamu [8]
Rapa Nui [18]
Taruga [8]
Valletta [18]
Vatican City [1]
Yerevan [21]
Zanzibar [19]
 
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