[BTS] City wants to liberate to Civ with no claim on it

livinginaz

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Playing an Earth game in which I conquered a few Civ but left the border cities as rump vassals, and this has presented a very strange problem that I have never seen before. Conquered all of India but a city in Tibet, and conquered much of Persia. Now I am presented with the option of liberating a formerly Indian city to Persia, with no option to hand it back to India.

The city in question has an Indian name, so it was founded by them, and is decently far from the former Persian border (perhaps sea tiles were touching slightly, but even that is a stretch). Likewise, Persia and India never fought a war. Hovering over the city tiles, none show any Persian influence. I am baffled. Has anyone experienced this kind of thing before?
 

Plains-Cow

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Yes I have. I captured Jerusalem from Arabia early in an Earth game and had the option to return it to Russia even though the Byzantine Empire and Arabia were the only people who could ever have a hint of culture around it, and Russia never owned it and indeed never warred with Arabia as far as I could tell.
 

livinginaz

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Yes I have. I captured Jerusalem from Arabia early in an Earth game and had the option to return it to Russia even though the Byzantine Empire and Arabia were the only people who could ever have a hint of culture around it, and Russia never owned it and indeed never warred with Arabia as far as I could tell.
That might be weirder than my incident. I assume you were playing Earth 1000AD if there are Byzantines? If so, I think Russia starts at peace with Arabia and has to cross barbarian land to reach Arab cities, so other cities would've been attacked before Jerusalem. Very weird.
 

Plains-Cow

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That might be weirder than my incident. I assume you were playing Earth 1000AD if there are Byzantines? If so, I think Russia starts at peace with Arabia and has to cross barbarian land to reach Arab cities, so other cities would've been attacked before Jerusalem. Very weird.
It was, and it was awhile ago, but it was during a round of the vanilla CIV IV version of 1000AD. I had the same thing happen when I took over Surry in the BtS version. In the first turns of each, though faster on vanilla, France frequently captures Barbarian territory and Byzantium is led by Basil I, who is programmed as a Barbarian always at war.
 

livinginaz

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It was, and it was awhile ago, but it was during a round of the vanilla CIV IV version of 1000AD. I had the same thing happen when I took over Surry in the BtS version. In the first turns of each, though faster on vanilla, France frequently captures Barbarian territory and Byzantium is led by Basil I, who is programmed as a Barbarian always at war.
Actually, just as a bit of trivia, the Byzantines in that vanilla Civ IV scenario can be made playable and they're depicted by Julius Caesar. The game just considers them to be a minor civ so you cannot speak with them without modding. Same with the Vikings, it's actually Alexander.

I remember that in that vanilla one if you didn't invade the Byzantines it made playing as the HRE or Arabia hard because any improvements on the border would get repeatedly raided. I do notice that France goes for Danzig and Visegrad faster too, in BTS Justinian usually gets Visegrad.
 

Plains-Cow

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Actually, just as a bit of trivia, the Byzantines in that vanilla Civ IV scenario can be made playable and they're depicted by Julius Caesar. The game just considers them to be a minor civ so you cannot speak with them without modding. Same with the Vikings, it's actually Alexander.

I remember that in that vanilla one if you didn't invade the Byzantines it made playing as the HRE or Arabia hard because any improvements on the border would get repeatedly raided. I do notice that France goes for Danzig and Visegrad faster too, in BTS Justinian usually gets Visegrad.
Yeah, I don't know how to make them playable, but I do know that the Byzantines were Rome and the Vikings were Greece because they would build those civ's unique units, respectively.

Playing the HRE in a vanilla game right now on BtS (allows you to do it still in the scenarios section). Basically just focused on killing HRE first with the other European powers. I usually raze Visegrad when I take it because it's a pretty useless city with so many mountains around it.
 

livinginaz

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Yeah, I don't know how to make them playable, but I do know that the Byzantines were Rome and the Vikings were Greece because they would build those civ's unique units, respectively.

Playing the HRE in a vanilla game right now on BtS (allows you to do it still in the scenarios section). Basically just focused on killing HRE first with the other European powers. I usually raze Visegrad when I take it because it's a pretty useless city with so many mountains around it.
I did it once for fun years ago, before I had BTS. I wouldn't mind playing the vanilla version of that again, carving up the Byzantines always changed the balance of power a bit. When allied with Europe in BTS I find that Byzantines either take Arabian cities or are enough use to help another European civ take them, causing a weaker Arabia. Good tip on Visegrad, I only ever used it to prevent Russian culture from going down the whole Black Sea, so I could move to Constantinople from two angles without open borders.
 

Kaitzilla

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Playing an Earth game in which I conquered a few Civ but left the border cities as rump vassals, and this has presented a very strange problem that I have never seen before. Conquered all of India but a city in Tibet, and conquered much of Persia. Now I am presented with the option of liberating a formerly Indian city to Persia, with no option to hand it back to India.

The city in question has an Indian name, so it was founded by them, and is decently far from the former Persian border (perhaps sea tiles were touching slightly, but even that is a stretch). Likewise, Persia and India never fought a war. Hovering over the city tiles, none show any Persian influence. I am baffled. Has anyone experienced this kind of thing before?
If a player has "Advisor Pop-ups" turned on in Options, the choice to give away a new city to another civ will sometimes appear.

This occurs if the city is closer to an AI capital than any other AI capital or player capital.

In your example, I assume that the conquered former India city is closer to Persia's capital than anyone else's capital.
Probably a city on India's former western border? And India's new capital is far to the east?
For distance, each diagonal tile counts as 1.5 tile, and any distance total with .5 on the end gets rounded down)



Once a player starts putting even a few :culture: into the city, a complicated calculation occurs so that (Liberate) is no longer an option.
 

Plains-Cow

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I did it once for fun years ago, before I had BTS. I wouldn't mind playing the vanilla version of that again, carving up the Byzantines always changed the balance of power a bit. When allied with Europe in BTS I find that Byzantines either take Arabian cities or are enough use to help another European civ take them, causing a weaker Arabia. Good tip on Visegrad, I only ever used it to prevent Russian culture from going down the whole Black Sea, so I could move to Constantinople from two angles without open borders.
Yeah, early on, Visegrad is just a moneypit for maintenance and a vulnerability to defend. I'd go for the first Byzantine city as my launching ground into Anatolia.

You ever play England? always see Spain moving up to settle Scotland if the player (or AI) doesn't get there first with a settler they start with lol.

Do you have a favorite CIV to play as in that scenario?
 

livinginaz

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Yeah, early on, Visegrad is just a moneypit for maintenance and a vulnerability to defend. I'd go for the first Byzantine city as my launching ground into Anatolia.

You ever play England? always see Spain moving up to settle Scotland if the player (or AI) doesn't get there first with a settler they start with lol.

Do you have a favorite CIV to play as in that scenario?
Actually, I've never played as England in that one. England is a favorite of mine in the Earth 18 Civs scenario, so I would be curious to see if I can pull off the same success in 1000AD. I probably can't get the same huge tech lead by the time ocean tiles can be crossed, but I know how to get to Canada before that if I want to settle. On lower difficulties I actually like to conquer India and the Middle East, India is always very rich but sparsely defended until you go past Prince, from my experience. China will ask for vassal state afterwards.

I have almost always played as HRE in both vanilla and BTS versions of 1000AD. Other civs in Europe have less cities to start and HRE can get Danzig within a few turns. I've tried to play as Asian civs too, but they are so far behind in tech that I usually get DOWed by Russia and Genghis or all progress has to slow to defend my cities. I did do Byzantines a few times, you can get lucky with Arabia and take a lot of cities early. Arabia itself can be interesting, but I have to turn them down from Deity. I'd love to see an Incan success story on this scenario given they start blocked from the land they can settle. If they can settle South America and clear the jungles, it's rich land though.
 

Plains-Cow

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Actually, I've never played as England in that one. England is a favorite of mine in the Earth 18 Civs scenario, so I would be curious to see if I can pull off the same success in 1000AD. I probably can't get the same huge tech lead by the time ocean tiles can be crossed, but I know how to get to Canada before that if I want to settle. On lower difficulties I actually like to conquer India and the Middle East, India is always very rich but sparsely defended until you go past Prince, from my experience. China will ask for vassal state afterwards.

I have almost always played as HRE in both vanilla and BTS versions of 1000AD. Other civs in Europe have less cities to start and HRE can get Danzig within a few turns. I've tried to play as Asian civs too, but they are so far behind in tech that I usually get DOWed by Russia and Genghis or all progress has to slow to defend my cities. I did do Byzantines a few times, you can get lucky with Arabia and take a lot of cities early. Arabia itself can be interesting, but I have to turn them down from Deity. I'd love to see an Incan success story on this scenario given they start blocked from the land they can settle. If they can settle South America and clear the jungles, it's rich land though.

It's super fun to play as England because you get raided by Ragnar ASAP turn 1 so you already need to plan for it, plus your units are available in the Middle East for the Crusade. I would strongly suggest playing England in a 1000AD game. I've recently finished an Emperor game as them a week or two ago where I focused my efforts on colonizing South America and just abandoning the Old World altogether. Take Ireland and focus on colonizing the New World with whips and, so long as you're good at microing worker turns, you'll be stronger than the other AI through peaceful expansion alone. Then you can take Monty if that's your thing in the Americas. I won by space victory. The key is to get great lighthouse and other wonders early before the AI that helps your economy on the ocean while colonizing the New World. With Elizabeth's financial, you'll be able to eventually out-tech the AI and win the game as they all struggle for land. Your only competition will either be France or Byzantium (depending on the version) because the Asians are all too slow at tech. China is OK, but they usually can't expand fast enough because they aren't militant enough to rival the top European power that consolidates in the West.

I'm thinking about which CIV to play as next. Want to do a game at the same time? We can pick the same CIV and same difficulty.
 

livinginaz

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It's super fun to play as England because you get raided by Ragnar ASAP turn 1 so you already need to plan for it, plus your units are available in the Middle East for the Crusade. I would strongly suggest playing England in a 1000AD game. I've recently finished an Emperor game as them a week or two ago where I focused my efforts on colonizing South America and just abandoning the Old World altogether. Take Ireland and focus on colonizing the New World with whips and, so long as you're good at microing worker turns, you'll be stronger than the other AI through peaceful expansion alone. Then you can take Monty if that's your thing in the Americas. I won by space victory. The key is to get great lighthouse and other wonders early before the AI that helps your economy on the ocean while colonizing the New World. With Elizabeth's financial, you'll be able to eventually out-tech the AI and win the game as they all struggle for land. Your only competition will either be France or Byzantium (depending on the version) because the Asians are all too slow at tech. China is OK, but they usually can't expand fast enough because they aren't militant enough to rival the top European power that consolidates in the West.

I'm thinking about which CIV to play as next. Want to do a game at the same time? We can pick the same CIV and same difficulty.
That could be an interesting challenge, you likely play on higher difficulty than I so I would be embattled. I hover around Noble-Prince currently. I am primarily a Civ III player who has recently revisited this game, so my worker management in particular suffers relative to III. If you like, we can try France because I think there is a chance we could employ very different strategies for success there. Probably BTS because Civ IV vanilla is being fussy on my current computer.
 

Plains-Cow

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That could be an interesting challenge, you likely play on higher difficulty than I so I would be embattled. I hover around Noble-Prince currently. I am primarily a Civ III player who has recently revisited this game, so my worker management in particular suffers relative to III. If you like, we can try France because I think there is a chance we could employ very different strategies for success there. Probably BTS because Civ IV vanilla is being fussy on my current computer.
I understand. However, you can play the vanilla CIV IV 1000AD scenario in BtS by going to the scenario menu and selecting "1000AD(Civ IV)" and it will load the game as if it was vanilla CIV IV 1000AD with the vanilla AI civilizations BUT with BtS tech tree, espionage, balances, etc. But to make it easy, we can do France together in the BtS version (so that China doesn't just take over all of Southeast Asia lolol).

As for difficulty, we can split the difference and go Monarch if you're feeling bold enough for it. I'd suggest that if you're nervous about it, make friends with the Europeans and beeline for the techs that allow you to colonize the New World. I'm either going to do that myself or just go on a freaking rampage eastward lol.

How do you want to keep one another posted? I'd like to make it a public thread to stimulate the forum activity (even if it's just us), or we can stick to this thread. We don't need to be on the same difficulty either. It's all just for fun. Want to go with regular updates and images or how do you want to do it?
 
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