Civ 3 has some serious reality problems.

[Polonius]

Edit: * Second warning - CAUTION, this thread contains JOKES.

Judging by the cries of despair on this forum there are some seriously twisted fan knickers out there due to Civ 3 ‘s inability to accurately model their preferred reality.

It’s high time we got up a petition to send to Firaxis. Here are some of the more glaring errors:

1. The movement is broken. At the start of the game it takes 50 years to walk one square. We all know that legs evolved in 5,000 BC so they should have figured out how they worked by 4,000BC. It also takes several months for a missile to cross one square – even late in the game – that can’t be right can it? “You’d better hunt out those plans for building a fallout shelter Nigel, that Nuke’s nearly over the back fence now”…

2. The age thing needs fixing. By the end of the game your first warrior can be over 6,000 years old (and still wearing his original underwear) – so why no cake with 6,000 candles on, huh? Would a “Prod the Pile Of Wrinkles to See if it’s Dead Yet Day” be too much too ask?

3. The food is wrong. Look at the city screen. Could you go 6,000 years on slices of bread without getting bowel trouble or developing an overwhelming desire to punch the cook? Why no tech for “Research Fried Rat” or “Research Cheeseburger” (They are different – not much, but the antidote is slightly different).

4. Units don’t relieve themselves! Gimme a break Firaxis, how big are the bladders in this game? And you expect us to believe that nobody gets caught picking their nose in 6,000 years?

5. The little horsies are too big. No, really - if you’ve ever actually seen a little horsie they are definitely smaller than most cities. And they grow too fast – one moment they’re out in the paddock all cute and tiny, the next they’re bigger than Baghdad. Actually, hold that one – I think I’ve got it – the units are all so big because they’re 1% brain and 99% 6,000 year bladder, right?

6. The subs don’t go “ping ping” properly. Don’t you watch the movies Firaxis?

7. How lame is it that units in the same square all vanish under the top man? We need a “research acrobat” tech so that they can stand on each other’s shoulders in an orderly military fashion and be seen.

8. Sid Firaxis is past it/next to it/hasn’t reached it yet/, and has made a game that’s just a lame clone of Civ 2 without actually being nearly enough like Civ 2.

9. There is no heroine with enormous breasts – how wrong is that! Do you think we all want to fantasize about having our bottoms smacked by Catherine The Great? Couldn’t you even give her a little whip? Maybe even a modest studded leather collar or something? Some of us have been pretty naughty…

10. There are no wombats or chickens in the game. I can almost forgive wombats – but 6,000 years of exploring the world and they can’t find ONE chicken – come on!

But the biggest biggie of all - the fan AI desperately needs patching. Some of them won’t read the manual – or can’t understand it. Some of them are even losing games dammit, how’s that going to help sales? And many of them seem to have trouble accepting that Civ3 is a computer game not a life substitute (I even have a severe touch of this myself).

Firaxis, you need to cancel all leave and get onto these things immediately. Particularly the chickens. My patience for enduring a game with no chickens is just about exhausted. I paid good money for this game! Not all that much, I grant you, but enough to allow me to demand my inalienable rights to
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Chickens in Civ 3, blast you.

 

[Polonius]

Some further lamentable problems with Civ 3 to add to my list above:

11. The hat designer for Civ 3 should be fired. Any student of military history knows that owners of armies were largely closet drag queens who conducted a prolonged contest over hundred of years to see who could dress their soldiers in the most flamboyantly stupid uniforms. Silly hats were a key component of this battle, with some stupendously absurd formal head wear being devised that would look right at home in the Sydney Gay Mardi Gras parade.. The hats in Civ 3 rarely rise above the moderately laughable.

12. The grass doesn’t work. Unbelievable, but the designers forgot lawn mowing. 6,000 year old lawns would hide the Colossus itself, let alone little knock-kneed gnome like warriors. My own lawn hasn’t been cut since I bought Civ 3, and already I can lose a reasonably fat child in it.

13. By what can only be interpreted as a calculated slap in the face, there is no Australian civ in the game, and no victory condition that requires beating the other civs at cricket or drinking them all under the table. Astonishing! Don’t Firaxis know that we have a boat in our navy and enough military hardware stockpiled to fire several shots? One day our archer might just take offence and take out your nukes – so watch it, eh.

14. I have now played 3 consecutive games as Cleopatra, yet not once has Caesar (or any other of those damned arrogant men) complimented me on my attractive make-up, sent me flowers, chocolates or gift-wrapped peacocks. Nobody has offered to mind the kids while I nip out and raze a few cities, or even said anything fruitier than “Care to trade World Maps?” I was a legendary sex magnet – are they all bloody impotent or just more interested in Spearmen? Don’t tell me they all prefer that goody-goody cow Joan or that pasty old bat Elizabeth?

Look, I could go on – I usually do – but the effort of coping with all this has tired me out. Do please try and fix these things Firaxis or I might have to start playing that copy of Empire Earth that I bought a couple of weeks ago and can’t seem to get round to opening. Then you’d be the ones in tears wouldn’t you?

Anyway, thanks to you all for a great site and some interesting, informative and entertaining discussions over the past few weeks. Commitments in my other reality are calling, so it’s goodbye Civ3 and Civfanatics for now. Good luck to you all in your battles.

Cheers. Chris. Aka Polonius.
I may be old, but a few obscure parts of me are not yet completely in ruins.

 

[Toni1]

:crazyeyes LMAO!

 

[CrazyDuck]

lol how long did it take you to type all that coz it's mainly a load
of insane ramblings

 

[cutiestar]

lol polonius

Some great sarcasm there, directed straight at several people on this board i can tell.

As one of the older variety, i am one of the middle getting older soon variety, i think it is good the things these others that want CIV III to be reality say, are able to be taken with a grain of salt.

Just remember, and this is a guess, but I am pretty sure, You are on a forum for those of all ages, and the posts that repetitively complain about the things you directed this post towards, are probably 99% posted by very young people still learning the ropes of life, and possibly don't comprehend the more logical replies from the more life advanced types just yet.

I love sarcasm

 

[Charles]

Cheers. Chris. Aka Polonius.
I may be old, but a few obscure parts of me are not yet completely in ruins.

I completely agree and support you Polo. I agree with the idea of setting up a petition but I don't think it will do any good, considering that 30% of the people support that idea. 30% of the people are in love with the weak version of Civ3. And another 30% don't give a crap because they buy games for merely "something" to do. And finally the remaining 10% don't use the internet. So as it stands we only have a 30% faction to work with. And even if we could muster a good defense against all these issues, it would only fall apon deaf-firaxis-ears. They began taking feedback in 96' as to what the fans wanted in Civ3, and they started the design of Civ3 in 99', so do the math. They handpicked the suggestions and threw the rest away. It's useless, but you can bet they will definately lose profit on any future improvements to "Civilization" due to lack of trust. Software piracy will probably increase now. But that's only my opinion ofcoarse.

Charles.

 

[Polonius]

Originally posted by cutiestar


Just remember, and this is a guess, but I am pretty sure, You are on a forum for those of all ages, and the posts that repetitively complain about the things you directed this post towards, are probably 99% posted by very young people still learning the ropes of life, and possibly don't comprehend the more logical replies from the more life advanced types just yet.

Cutiestar, I think you’re on the mark with your observations about the sensitivities of some young posters. I can still dimly remember being young myself and how aggrieved my friends and I were when things didn’t go as we wanted. And particularly how surly and enraged we got when the rest of the world refused to take our personal observations and sorrows seriously enough!

But this wasn’t supposed to be a “bait the kids” thread – it was intended more along the lines of a humorous farewell rather than just a sarcastic comment. Perhaps it will fall completely flat with some – an Australian’s idea of what’s funny might not work in other parts of the world.

But as long as a few folks get a laugh, that’s all I was hoping for. In my “real” life I do a fair bit of work in the area of intellectual disability, which isn’t always cheery (although not nearly as glum as it sounds) – so a good laugh now and then is a necessity.

In my world I see many people who through no fault of their own scored a direct hit from nature’s “random number generator” and have a severe disability – at odds of many thousands to one. So listening to a bunch of kids endless *****ing about some damn computer game city flipping through a random chance seems pretty bloody trivial in comparison. But I have tried to be helpful rather than harsh in most of my posts.

Anyway, must go. All the best with Civ 3 and 2002.

 

[Zouave]

Everyone wants to enjoy themselves with the game. But there may be people who would do better with Fantasy scenarios in Civ than those pretending to be "historical". (I actually liked the Atlantis scenario for Civ II).

Ancient galleys firing broadsides with cannon?? Ludicrous.

Medieval longbowmen being easily ground into the dust by knights?? Never happened in reality. Longbowmen attacking and destroying a rifle-armed Cavalry unit? It happened in Civ III.

No effort made to reflect on commerce - the true role of privateers and submarines which mostly attacked merchant ships (not in the game)?? Nope. I could have dozens of privateers between two rival civ's harbors and it would accomplish NOTHING regarding trade. It should END it.

Persian Immortals wielding swords like Hannibal's feared Iberian swordsmen?? Yea, right.

Every one of these is a sloppy design fault by Sid the Great.

The Chinese Rider?? Only one Chinese Dynasty (the 8th century T'ang) ever had similar capabilities.

War elephants were terribly weak defensively and should be a 4.1. But those longbowmen, very good defensively esp. against horses, get the 4.1 instead of the 4.3.

Great leaders had a GREAT effect on combat - they did a lot more than create an army (which has limitations itself). Not reflected in the game.

If Sid is going to offer up the semblance of History let us expect some minimal standards and accuracy instead of pretending left is right and up is down. Otherwise, go try Fantasy scenarios where it doesn't matter.

 

[Readylander]

Polonius,

Sorry to see you go. I have enjoyed your posts. I hope you return before I too must leave due to "real life" demands. I am afraid that will be sooner than I like

 

[Special_O]

Originally posted by cutiestar
lol polonius

Some great sarcasm there, directed straight at several people on this board i can tell.

As one of the older variety, i am one of the middle getting older soon variety, i think it is good the things these others that want CIV III to be reality say, are able to be taken with a grain of salt.

Why can't you just accept that the game is horribly flawed and not that fun too play?

That's realty. Deal with it.

 

[RogueNine]

LMAO!


Too bad some in this thread couldn't understand that this thread was created for humorous purposes... Be tolerant Rogue.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by RogueNine
LMAO!


Too bad some in this thread couldn't understand that this thread was created for humorous purposes... Be tolerant Rogue.

I'm not aware of that. It says "Civ3 has some serious reality problems" I'm sorry, but that can be taken a million different ways, and for me it came across as "whats wrong with Civ3" as it probably does most people. I fail to see the humor, but do not deny that it was intended for humor. O'ell.

Charles.

 

[narmox]

Originally posted by Charles


I'm not aware of that. It says "Civ3 has some serious reality problems" I'm sorry, but that can be taken a million different ways, and for me it came across as "whats wrong with Civ3" as it probably does most people. I fail to see the humor, but do not deny that it was intended for humor. O'ell.

Charles.

Re-read the first post. If that doesn't sound like humour, I don't know what does.

 

[muppet]

OK. I'll try harder to be understanding and respectful of those more experienced than I and those less experienced. It's just... so hard to be nice sometimes.

If this is "Australian" humor, I want the patent rights to it!

We need to modify the WLTKD to WLTPD!!

 

[nodog]

Brilliant post, Polionius.

It boggles my mind that people would respond to your post with more "realism" complaints. Gimme a break.

It is a perfect case of be careful what you wish for. If Sid or the rest of the designers had incorporated your suggestions we would have a very broken game indeed.

Game balance is the primary concern of any game design. Not whether Persions had really cool swords, or elephants could really defend, or if an arrow through the head was as deadly as a bullet.

If any older unit was useless against any newer unit, as so many have suggested, then the game would be severely flawed. It would come down to whover got a tech edge, period.

The idea that some of you mouse-wielding history buffs know more about game design than Sid is ludicrous. This is a great game, with great balance.

It is not sim-civ, it is Civ III.

It is a game. Enjoy it or don't, doesn't matter. But some of you sound like the children that get upset because "Wile E. Coyote could never have survived that explosion" or "Russel Crowe spoke english in Gladiator, ridiculous" or "In space, ships don't blow up, mister Lucas"

Just enjoy. Please. Or write a book about the proper function of Immortals in Persian history and get a teaching job.

Me? I just wanta play the game.

(and occasionally defend poor old Sid from bitter and vitriolic detractors)

 

[cutiestar]

Nodog it was a nice touch to mention Russel Crowe in an aussies thread.

I guess another realism joke could have been rather than complain about Russel crowe talking english in Gladiator, maybe they'd be insisting that Russel Crowe is australian, and not kiwi

I too was amazed in a post such as this, a few posters still came and complained of the game flaws, I guess in the rabbit world, they would be those few that actually went to eat the juicy carrot sitting inside a huge rabbit trap. Even after they read the sign in bunny language saying, don't eat this carrot you will be killed.

 

[etj4Eagle]

As much as many people complained about SMAC being too abstract, I think that may have been one of its greatests strengths. As that got rid of many of these realism whines.

In many cases from the complaints that I have seen, the "realism issues" are a result of people not taking the time to learn the game and pay attention and instead expecting the game to behave the way they think it should.

For me I look at the units in the game the same way as I did in AC, at their stats. The name is nothing more than a label. If I want I could rationalize why an ancient unit would have a chance against a modern one, but I don't really care. This is nothing more than a strategy game with a historic flare. Make it much more realistic and you would horribly complicate the game. And if there is a large enough market for that kind of game, someone will eventually publish one.

 

[Anglophile]

Great post Polonius and what an amazing spectrum of responses, from the truly irony challenged to the more appreciative who recognize the trademark subtlety of Ozzie wit (think Dame Edna) - maybe Sid could get him/her to design the hats for Civ4. I thought your comments were very amusing straight up and didn't have to be read as satirizing some of the serious reality set. Didn't have to be but some of the responses indicate certainly should have been.

Not sure what you meant about being away for awhile. I hope that you will return soon for your always articulate and intelligent posts have added significantly to my enjoyment of the Civ3 experience. Thanks.

 

[Grandpa Troll]

I am certainly not attempting to place a bucket of cold water upon your fire, but ISN'T the whole concept behind the Civilization series to build our own REALITY based game, according to each others whims and cultural authenticity authored by yours truly or anyone whom launches the game. With Multiplayer when it comes out, we will "Assimilate" into other Human civilizations, but for time being, simply show the computer who is "DA MAN" (or femalian if you are). (I would FIRE a contractor if they took as many turns/years as some of my cities do in constructing some of these structures/improvements!!)

I love this game is am also a wee bit dissilusioned about NO CHICKEN in the game. If you knew me, you would know I couldn't go 1 day, let alone 1 year without some sort of chicken...

[Enter Forest Gump]

Chicken Gumbo....Chicken Creole..Baked Chicken..Chicken and Rice..Barbecue Chicken...Fried Chicken...Chicken Soup..Chicken Pot Pie...Boiled Chicken..Sweet N Sour Chicken..Chicken Salad...Chicken open faced with gravey...Chicken ala King...Golden Basted Chicken.

>>>>>GOLDEN AGE<<<<<..for next twenty turns recieve a double order of hard work due to more than 5 different chicken dishes in your kingdom in same turn!!!!

Keep Reality where it is..in Real World and leave fun where it is..In Civin Games such as this terriffic CIV III!!!


AND by the way..this is also a thank you to the author of this post, for sharing a lighter side, as opossed to "Hardliners" side as many posts are usually vented with!


Yours In Civin

Troll4u2

 

[Polonius]

Thank you all for an amazing breadth of responses, and some kind words too. My arrangement with my ISP is due to expire in a couple of hours, and I'm going to let it remain that way for a bit while I concentrate on other realities for a while.

I have thoroughly enjoyed the last few weeks here and have learnt a great deal and enjoyed some good chats. A special goodbye to cutiestar (keep sticking it to 'em Kiwi ) Anglophile, Moulton, Readylander, Tetley, pilferman, eyrie, Smash, Ferd, Belzedar, Sam-Catchem, Flynn and others too numerous to mention (or whose nicknames have slipped my aging brain). I've enjoyed the contact enormously and have been amazed by the skill, inventiveness, knowledge and willingness to share that so many people on this forum exhibit.

And not forgetting thanks to Thunderfall and the magnificently named Cunobelin of Hippo. (One day I will share my new recipe for 'Cunobelin of Hippo' which begins "Take one fresh haunch of hippo and cut it into 1" cunobelins. Brown the cunobelins lightly over a traditional fire made of 50% twigs and 50% dried elephant dung...." etc... (I believe that the original Cunobelin was a mighty leader of some kind, and Hippo a town in North Africa, but I"m afraid his name now lives on in our household as a pet name for small chunks of meat). Yes, we're all mad, but happily so.

Goodbye for now - may your arrows always hit home and your cities never flip.