Excuse me, but this thread was started by a Civ 4 player, who doesn´t accept others who don´t play Civ 4 -not the other way around you are saying here. These kind of Civ 4 "fans" (to avoid another word or the word "asperger enthusiasts" as you use it) also post in Civ 3 forums. In his later posts Churchill 25 showed his true intentions about his postings. I really don´t need to be convinced about Civ 4, also I´m open for that. But this thread is about convincing Civ3 players about Civ 4 and if there are arguments about this, these people also must deal with the responses about them. If Civ 4 players now on their own forums are confronted with some sides where Civ 4 is not so shiny, they must live with it. If they now are disturbed in their own small Civ 4 world (to use your words about "asperger enthusiasts") it is the problem of the people who start these kind of threads. Without "a bunch of loudmouth, insecure civ 4 fans that perk up every time" the problem in this and other threads "about a bunch of loudmouth, insecure civ 3 fans that perk up every time" as you call it, would not exist - at least not in this thread.