Civ 4 BTS Who is the best Leader to play?

[TheMeInTeam]

^ SH tends to delay 2nd city. You don't always need an instant border pop anyway; sometimes good tiles are in initial 8, you get religion auto spread, you're creative, etc. Anyway monuments are a 1 pop whip so you REALLY need a lot of mileage out of the wonder for it to make up the slower initial growth curve.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I like to chop out Stonehenge early and then cry when I miss a spot by 3 turns, or some barb city magically pops up because I was lazy and didn't spread warriors right.

 

[uat2d]

I like to chop out Stonehenge early and then cry when I miss a spot by 3 turns, or some barb city magically pops up because I was lazy and didn't spread warriors right.

Oh, the joy of playing without barbs.

 

[AJ11]

Oh, the joy of playing without barbs.

*sighs* No barbs, no random events... What game is this that you are playing???

 

[uat2d]

*sighs* No barbs, no random events... What game is this that you are playing???

Also no huts and no cultural conversions.

It's what Civ4 should have active by default.

 

[AJ11]

Also no huts and no cultural conversions.

It's what Civ4 should have active by default.

Argh! Get thee behind me, Satan!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Argh! Get thee behind me, Satan!

I know right? The masses would MUCH rather leave games to chance and skill-equalization features than STRATEGY or SKILL.

What's next, a basic counter to a common tactics (throw vs block) randomly failing?! NO WAY THAT WOULD HAPPEN, RIGHT?

Looks like the satan worshipers/mafia are doing a solid job of implicating the good guys here...

 

[AJ11]

Looks like the satan worshipers/mafia are doing a solid job of implicating the good guys here...

They'd probably say that turn about is fair play

 

[Iranon]

Personally, I find that random events and goody huts increase the challenge. AI pace becomes much less predictable, and I need to stay on my toes rather than falling back to a routine that I know to work.
Games with a much larger element of chance still attract extremely dedicated and skilled players, I see no reason to dismiss them out of hand.

However, I also feel that many games deliberately sacrifice elegance and clarity of mechanics to satisfy players who don't actually want an honest challenge. And that is terrible.

 

[uat2d]

Personally, I find that random events and goody huts increase the challenge. AI pace becomes much less predictable, and I need to stay on my toes rather than falling back to a routine that I know to work.
Games with a much larger element of chance still attract extremely dedicated and skilled players, I see no reason to dismiss them out of hand.

However, I also feel that many games deliberately sacrifice elegance and clarity of mechanics to satisfy players who don't actually want an honest challenge. And that is terrible.

Where's the challenge of the "I win" and "I lose" random events?

Besides, even the ones that aren't stupidly game-breaking, I still can't find much of a challenge, rather than an annoyance, having my improvements or buildings disappearing from time to time and having to rebuild them.

"Your theater burned down!" - wow, the challenge
"An industrial fire gutted your factory!" - yay, more shields wasted
"A storm destroyed your pasture!" - the automated networking workers have already been dispatched
"Vedic Aryans have risen and they seek to plunder the riches of civilization!" - nice challenge, having to Worldbuild them out so that I don't lose the game in 3.

I'd say events increases randomness, not challenge, and this is a bad kind of randomness, even random events need to be balanced.

 

[elohssa]

I've been through quite a few leaders and it's clear financial it the best trait. Having said that my best win on monarch was with creative/organized. For me it's between Elizabeth and Hannibal. Overall I prefer charismatic as being able to get level 4 mounted units (war-elephants, knights, cuirassiers and cavalry) out of production with the right civics is pretty awesome early-mid game and with the pentagon your late game units are lethal. So Hannibal for me.

 

[Iranon]

@ uat2d: Can't really think of an 'I win' event... even a perfectly timed golden age falls short. The Vedic Aryan uprising can be an 'I lose' event but shouldn't 90% of the time.
Suddenly fighting for survival and picking up the pieces after a barbarian rampage adds variety, as does riding the wave if they hit someone else. And it makes naked expansion carry an appreciable risk.
The 'x destroyed' events could have been handled much better, with more meaningful choices attached. The same goes with some of the smaller gainful events... but in my opinion they just fail to add much value rather than detracting any.
Of course the game is cleaner and more fair without, and I do understand the preference for such. However, imo Civ4 doesn't live up to those ideals anyway and I'm less complacent when the game is a little less predictable, even if the tools to make it so are inelegant.

@ elohssa: ORG is definitely in the same league as FIN, in my opinion even a little stronger. FIN is strong but probably a little overrated. I really think the balance is quite good on higher levels, with 'at least one economy trait and no pure military one' combinations being fairly equal.

 

[GGracchus]

I've been through quite a few leaders and it's clear financial it the best trait. Having said that my best win on monarch was with creative/organized. For me it's between Elizabeth and Hannibal. Overall I prefer charismatic as being able to get level 4 mounted units (war-elephants, knights, cuirassiers and cavalry) out of production with the right civics is pretty awesome early-mid game and with the pentagon your late game units are lethal. So Hannibal for me.

I wouldn't say financial is THE best, organized is really nice, creative reduces need for mysticism early game unless going oracle, and expansive gives faster workers+granaries.

 

[Dman4civ]

there alot to read, and I doubt you'll ever see this... but I discovered how much a pain it is later in game when you constantly decided to switch civs back in forth, like I do, for unique circomstances. Always going on revolt IS ANNOYING. So I start by looking for a leader with SPI spiritual aspect, she has no ANARCHY of kingdom when switching civics or religions. That narrows it down to 4-5, than you look at the other traits, decide which one you prefer. Right now, I'm playing as Salladin, or however it spelled. Asside from SPI, he also PRO protective. early game, all archers start with city defense. later, all riflemen have drill. IF i save those archers that are building unmatchable defensive experience, and upgrade them to hit Riflemen, adding drill, WOW.
So thats my opinion.
OH, btw... starting out, race for more than just one religion and be the first to discover it. When you are founder of a religion, one of your cities is its holy city. get a profit, build that special wonder for that religion in its holy city. Every city across the globe that that religion spread to, gains that holy city +1 more gold. It does not limit to your national religion or not. In my current game, I'm found of Hindu, Confusion, and Christain, and about to get Islam. So, after I establish ea holy city, get its Holy wonder built, and spread it globally, EA religion will give me +1 gold, and cities can include ALL seven religions, they are not limited to one. Chance decrease for each new religion to convert a city, but there not limited. So there potential for me bringing in +4 gold for every city across globe if I find this Islam. NOT TO MENTION the cultural improvement itl bring.

 

[Dman4civ]

there alot to read, and I doubt you'll ever see this... but I discovered how much a pain it is later in game when you constantly decided to switch civs back in forth, like I do, for unique circomstances. Always going on revolt IS ANNOYING. So I start by looking for a leader with SPI spiritual aspect, she has no ANARCHY of kingdom when switching civics or religions. That narrows it down to 4-5, than you look at the other traits, decide which one you prefer. Right now, I'm playing as Salladin, or however it spelled. Asside from SPI, he also PRO protective. early game, all archers start with city defense. later, all riflemen have drill. IF i save those archers that are building unmatchable defensive experience, and upgrade them to hit Riflemen, adding drill, WOW.
So thats my opinion.
OH, btw... starting out, race for more than just one religion and be the first to discover it. When you are founder of a religion, one of your cities is its holy city. get a profit, build that special wonder for that religion in its holy city. Every city across the globe that that religion spread to, gains that holy city +1 more gold. It does not limit to your national religion or not. In my current game, I'm found of Hindu, Confusion, and Christain, and about to get Islam. So, after I establish ea holy city, get its Holy wonder built, and spread it globally, EA religion will give me +1 gold, and cities can include ALL seven religions, they are not limited to one. Chance decrease for each new religion to convert a city, but there not limited. So there potential for me bringing in +4 gold for every city across globe if I find this Islam. NOT TO MENTION the cultural improvement itl bring.

BECUASE OF THIS STRATEGY OF MINE, Financial aspects of leaders not that big a deal to me, allowing me to include other traits instead. It just takes time though, to build up your religion(s) to span the globe, but latter half, no kingdom will match my income. Expecially w 4 Holy cities.

 

[GGracchus]

BECUASE OF THIS STRATEGY OF MINE, Financial aspects of leaders not that big a deal to me, allowing me to include other traits instead. It just takes time though, to build up your religion(s) to span the globe, but latter half, no kingdom will match my income. Expecially w 4 Holy cities.

The problem is that going for the early religion(meditation, polytheism, etc.) skips key worker techs(AH, BW) in order to get them, which can slow down early expansion. Getting more cities out earlier can be better for the economy long-term, leading to a nice renaissance conquering spree.

 

[ShengWuLien]

Haven't played BtS, but in Warlords:

Hattie is right up there. Spiritual and Creative are killer traits, and she starts with The Wheel and Agriculture so your first worker is never bored. I heard some people think her UU is ok, too...

Mehmed is another monster. Same starting techs as Hattie and his EXP/ORG traits were made for REXing. I actually count him as my most hated AI to play against.

I like most of the PHI leaders, although all of them have pretty lame starting techs in Warlords. Lizzy almost feels a little overpowered to me because you get all the benefits of quick GPs plus FIN cottages. You can just massively out-tech the AI with that combo at the lower difficulty levels.

 

[plasmacannon]

... I don't consider the Dutch overpowered. I think that the UB is OK but not spectacular - water tiles are generally weak. Some other very good players (TMIT for one) thinks it's rather poor. UU is also situational and a lot better on water maps. I'd say the Dutch are a very good Archipelago Civ and rather poor at Panagea. In some situations most Civs can have a great fit in and seem overpowered - like Rome on Earth18. If any Civ is overpowered it's the Inca.

Yes Inca, another example, Persia too.
I guess, when, I wrote that, I had seen enough of these types of questions.
The reason, I mentioned, the Dutch, is that it weems like I have a hard time figring out where I will place my Moui Stones, where, as when, I am Dutch, I can have them effectively, in more locations.
Sure, on a Flat inland plains map, the Dutch would do much worse, but, for me, those types of maps are rare, and I usually, end up with some coastal cities to get that Fish tile out in the Ocean. Having the possibility of prosuction on water tiles, as supposed to none available, for every other empire, is the overpowered part I was referring to.
Their UU is cool, but, not earthshattering, their Leader traits are decient, allowing for early culture pops, scientists and faster built culture buildings after capturing cities, on top of the gold and teching advantages.

 

[AJ11]

Haven't played BtS, but in Warlords:

Hattie is right up there. Spiritual and Creative are killer traits, and she starts with The Wheel and Agriculture so your first worker is never bored. I heard some people think her UU is ok, too...

Mehmed is another monster. Same starting techs as Hattie and his EXP/ORG traits were made for REXing. I actually count him as my most hated AI to play against.

I like most of the PHI leaders, although all of them have pretty lame starting techs in Warlords. Lizzy almost feels a little overpowered to me because you get all the benefits of quick GPs plus FIN cottages. You can just massively out-tech the AI with that combo at the lower difficulty levels.

Hattie? She gets runned over like a possum in all the games that I have been playing. Hattie and Lizzie are two that gets into trouble with barbs, let alone other AI...!

 

[ShengWuLien]

Hattie? She gets runned over like a possum in all the games that I have been playing. Hattie and Lizzie are two that gets into trouble with barbs, let alone other AI...!

Just because the AI can't play them well doesn't mean we can't...