Civ 4 Gold - Terrible!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by MarkC1, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. MarkC1

    MarkC1 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Texas
    Anyone have the misfortune of buying Civ 4 Gold? It is horrible.

    First off, it installs into a directory other than normal , apparently. Instead of c:\Firaxis.... its C:\2K Games\Firaxis. Fine, my problem for not looking. I could do without 2k Advertising on my computer... but my fault for not paying attention.. looks like another half hour install coming up while switching discs in and out like crazy

    Second, No Shortcuts.... At All.... In the Start Menu. Aside from creating your own, you have no choice but to go into the directory and find the app itself. Popping in the CD doesnt help as it defaults to Warlords.

    Third, NO mods at all seem to work. All of the 5 mods ive tried to load crashed the game. Even betterAI crashes it.

    Fourth, Civ 4 Vanilla is borked, bad! It cant even load its own Mods right. I try loading America Revolution..... app restarts... Play now! is grayed out. I click Play Scenario..... it's all the same scenarios as default mod. How exactly am I supposed to play this sh!t?

    Fifth, CDs? Is this the 1990s??? The put a damn spindle of CDs in here rather than do a little work and merge it into one DVD. Shoddy, 2k, very shoddy

    Pretty freakin peeved
     
  2. CyberTyrant

    CyberTyrant Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    1,261
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wisconsin, USA
    I don't have Civ4 Gold myself, but I will agree with one thing you said - CDs. This is the 21st century, and DVD-ROMS can be had for like $15 now. CDs should have been phased out by now.
     
  3. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    You guys might be missing the point. The CDs might well be busted open from existing inventory and included with the new packaging. That's an entirely different prospect than burning a new DVD.

    Secondly, to the OP... sounds like you need to call customer service and ask for tech help.

    Wodan
     
  4. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,668
    Location:
    The Dreaming Spires
    I have to agree that it creates a very bad impression on me these days if something arrives on multiple CDs. If it fits on one CD, fine. Two CDs is pushing it - not too bad if the game is set up so you never have to switch between them, and as long as the installer actually works. The single most common problem I've had with installers recently is where cheapskates have used multiple CDs, and the wretched thing doesn't handle switching them over properly. I've had enough half installed screw ups to sort out to make me loathe multiple CDs.

    There is no excuse whatever for more than two CDs - and it creates a bad image to have even that many.
     
  5. Quintillus

    Quintillus Archiving Civ3 Content Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,599
    Location:
    Ohio
    It's done for compatibility reasons, though. Civ4 can be played on computers from before when DVD players were standard (granted, not ideally). That's why most software is still on CD. But gradually, more and more software is becoming DVD-only. Civ5 probably will be.

    In ten years you'll be seeing people ask, "Why 3 DVDs? Just put them on (insert format of choice here)!"

    It would be nice if you didn't have to swap CDs to switch between Warlords and Vanilla. But I think you're overreacting. It's not that hard to create Start Menu shortcuts. And a nice ask for help is always most effective.
     
  6. grommit5

    grommit5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Washington, the state, not DC
    then why not release it in both cd and dvd.
     
  7. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    $$

    :scan:
     
  8. grommit5

    grommit5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Washington, the state, not DC
    lame excuse, many games are released in both formats. the cost of the media is factored into the price of the game. one could argue that the dvd would be even more cost effective since its pressed onto one disc vs several.

    that said i think the whole discussion is silly. it's not like you have to deal with multiple cd's everytime you play, only the initial install.

    still think your answer "$$" is lame
     
  9. zyphyr

    zyphyr Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    461
    The marginal cost of producing one more copy on DVD would be cheaper than the marginal cost of producing another copy on CDs. On the other hand, there are other factors involved:
    1)Mastering that DVD is an additional expense.
    2)The version on the DVD needs to be slightly different - the copy protection check wouldn't be the same. That means slight additional development costs as well as the possibility of additional development costs for each patch produced. Either that or no copy protection (my preference).

    As the number of DVD copies you expect to sell increases, the costs get split up over a greater number of disks and eventually reach a point where the dual format release can become cost effective.

    Then there is the problem of getting the stores to carry adequate numbers of both formats. For something that they expect to be a big seller, that isn't a big problem as they would already be allocating a fair amount of shelf and backroom space. Unfortunately, Turn Based Strategy is a relatively small market which can make the dual format release hard to justify.


    All this is just a longwinded version of Wodan's answer
    That being said, whenever possible I do prefer one DVD to multiple CDs (I might even be willing to pay a dollar or two more for the convenience).
     
  10. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    Grommit, approx 75% of the cost of any product is tied into the distribution and marketing costs.

    Thus, say we split one release into two... one CD release into a CD and a DVD release.

    Say we were going to make $1 US on a sale. $.25 is ours and will pay us for the manufacture. But now we have to spend it on two releases. So, we spend $.125 on a CD and $.125 on a DVD. We then sell each one. So, we make (200%) of $.125 on each, that's $.50 on each, or $1.00 total. Which, wonder of wonders, is the same as we would have made.

    But, the question is, did it cost us $.125 to make both of these???

    That's a question of production economics. In general, the more you make of something, the cheaper it is. So, if it cost us $125 to make 1,000 CDs (.125 each), in general it will cost us about $100 to make 500 CDs and $100 to make 500 DVDs (.50 each). And that's just the production cost. We also have the shipping/handling, the design labor, the production labor, and the overhead labor.

    Wodan
     
  11. grommit5

    grommit5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Washington, the state, not DC
    Wodan, while i understand the principles of marketing, thanks for the explaination anyway, i think zypher said it best. given a choice most people with a dvd drive would prefer that format and many would be willing to pay an extra buck or three to get it. i certainly would.
     
  12. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2005
    Messages:
    4,668
    Location:
    The Dreaming Spires
    Doesn't really follow given that the European release of Civ 4 was on a single DVD only. That doesn't really suggest that they're trying to keep the (surely very few) people without DVD drives in the loop. I seriously doubt Civ 4 would work to any useful degree on a machine so old as to be without a DVD drive anyway.

    The numbers you present Wodan, however interesting, do not support using CDs instead of only a DVD. A multiple release might be dodgy (though for all your numbers you've not allowed for the fact you need multiple CDs and only one DVD - if they really do cost the same amount to make it would be economically unsound to use CDs, ever. I doubt they actually cost the same to make for the simple reason that CDs are still made.)

    So they haven't cared about making Civ 4 work on CD drives in the past, nor is it likely that they do now (or even that it would work). It therefore must boil down to being a cheapskate at the expense of convienience. Fine, I can see their reasons, but it results in a shoddy product, which does not impress me. It's the same as if you use PDF manuals and pathetic paper CD sleeves - cheaper yes, but it creates a bad impression, and often doesn't work as well.
     
  13. Party

    Party Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    176
    Jeez, that just suck.
    I mean CDs! Wow!
     
  14. pikesfan

    pikesfan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Messages:
    36
    Gosh, what would you people have done in the days when one had to install a program with six or more floppy disks?
     
  15. grommit5

    grommit5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Washington, the state, not DC
    been there, done that and don't wish to go back.

    what would you have done back in the days when a whole game fit on one floppy, 5 1/4 not 3 1/2. i've also sat around waiting for the tape to finish loading so i could play. doesn't mean i want to keep doing it that way.
     
  16. SlightlyMad

    SlightlyMad Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Haha, when I was your age, we had to fast forward a casette tape drive to the right location to load in a program by source.
     
  17. pikesfan

    pikesfan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2002
    Messages:
    36
    Yes, I remember that too from when I was a child, so to me, with experience of having to install a program with 6+ floppy disks, 2 CDs aren't a problem. If we were talking about 4-5 CDs, then I would start to think things were getting awkward, and with 6 CDs I would start to complain.
     
  18. grommit5

    grommit5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Washington, the state, not DC
    between all the gosh's and gee's it doesn't sound like you're going to win any contests by turning on the wayback machine.
     
  19. MarkC1

    MarkC1 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Texas
    I actually do have an issue about swapping out cds during install, there has been two times where the second cd, for whatever reason, was erroring out on a random file. Of course this messes the entire install up and you have to cancel.

    That said, the fact that they come on cds is not a compatibility issue. They have the bonus behind the scenes material on a DvD.... yes that's right. Game on CD, Extras on DVD. They coudl have fit the entire damn game on that one DVD......

    The only reason I can see for going the multi-cd route is that they wanted to keep the cD copy protection mechanism in place. No other reason makes sense
     
  20. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,867
    Location:
    In transit
    A single DVD costs about 10x a single CD. Depends on qty but that's a rough estimate.

    Wodan
     

Share This Page