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Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tamed, May 6, 2010.

  1. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    They're using Steam not just because it provides DRM, but also because it provides a ready made multiplayer system, friends lists, achievements, content and patch distribution network which would be a MASSIVE task to build from scratch.

    You could argue that they'd be justified to us steamworks even without the DRM. No wonder they're using it, because they get all that great stuff AND a DRM system all in one.

    Well, they can't have the anti-cheat software enabled, so I'm not sure how you can say that it'll have the same cheating as the official servers.

    They can only be run by people willing to download illegal software and run illegal servers for free, so I don't see how you can say they won't have worse connection speeds than official servers run by large game server providers.
     
  2. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Yes, and why should we be forced to play multiplayer, have friends, and achievements? I have no use for all of those. Content, yeah DLC, great move! I absolutely hate such things. And patch distributing has never been a problem, right? I don't know anything about patch distributing, but it can't be that difficult right?

    And yes, those servers are worse than legal ones. But they're not as bad as you say. Some sort of moderation does exist.
     
  3. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

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    Erm... then... I hope you enjoy your pirated copy of the game?

    Since when did the world revolve around your personal preferences?

    A large number of people out there who want to play the game have friends and want to play a feature rich version of the game enough to want to buy it. That is the intention.

    Nobody really cares that you have no friends and don't want to play any multilayer.

    Moderator Action: Flaming - warned
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  4. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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  5. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Right...Yeah, I'm sitting here in the basement, with...Only 4, surprises me, pizza's. Yeah, that's about my whole life story too. God has visited me in my dreams, and told me I am the galaxy. So while the world doesn't revolve around me, it does revolve in me, which is even better, don't you think?

    Seriously though, my problem (and perhaps that of others) is that I am forced to use a completely useless thing (for me, that is) which affects my computer (possibilty of viruses, since it does interact with (and perhaps forces me to shut down) anti-virus tools), removes memory (you know what I mean), takes up space, pop ups, is annoying, and complicates things without the need) for what I have absolutely no use. So, why is this? Because of DRM? Because of patching? No, I don't think so. I think it is because of DLC, and thus, money! Ping ping ping! And many people feel the same, we're all being slapped in the face with this moneymaking arrangement which serves no real purpose. Yes, it perhaps makes patching easier, or whatever you want to say, but if it wasn't for the added money, they wouldn't use Steam or such things. So, the only real use of it is money making.

    I do not have a pirated copy of whatever game, I do have friends, and I don't like to play Civilizations online. There's a difference between any game and Civilizations, for I do find FPS games nice to play online. Although I nearly never do it...

    Please correct me if I'm wrong though, and kindly don't get irritated when people are challenging your opinion, or at least, refrain from flaming (I hope that doesn't count as flaming, as, now that I'm rereading it, it does appear to have that kind of attitude, if you understand what I mean).
     
  6. xenobiotic

    xenobiotic Chieftain

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    Any evidence for this claim that you know better than the people whose fulltime job is maximizing revenue at 2K??

    I don't have any stats on how effect DRM is, but I'll side with the people whose profits depend on making the most effective business decisions. I feel this makes more sense than listening to gamers with no business experience who have a clear anti-DRM agenda. If you claim 2K is wrong, the onus is on you to provide evidence.
     
  7. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    There were surveys on the internet...Of reliable websites. I was just stating what I think is truth, and of course, the companies etcetera are more reliable and would (or in any case should) know more and better than jus tsome random guy, but the problem is, those at the very top of companies don't interact with the outside world, to put it that way. Take EA for example. Their community leaders know that C&C4 is an unwanted product (by most people), and they say so to their bosses. Who ignore it. I believe the same is happening with DRM. DRM supposedly protects against piracy (which it doesn't), so let's continue with adding it.

    But, I do not have any evidence.
     
  8. xenobiotic

    xenobiotic Chieftain

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    Thank you.
     
  9. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    2k/Firaxis realise that games have been moving into an ever-evolving social network type of deal since we used to invite friends over to play Atari with the second controller. Just because you do not move in this direction doesn't mean the majority of gaming isn't. And it doesn't mean that a feature-rich system that supports this that doesn't cost a publisher/developer time and money working on it is not a good deal for said publisher/developer.

    Do you know what Steamworks gets those of you who don't play MP/want a community/to play with friends? It gets you development time on things you do care about - AI, an entirely new graphics engine, a program that can use multiple cores to increase turn times, brand now subsystems. That's right boys and girls, development time costs MONEY and is LIMITED. They can't just hold back a game until it's ready to release, at some point it has to produce revenue. So by adding Steamworks they can focus that time on things that yes, even you, will enjoy. So don't say Steamworks brings you nothing.

    The game needs to have these things wether you use them or not - because people like me and my Civ playing friends use them, and as stated, gaming is fast becoming a SOCIAL activity. The limited people here who do not use friends lists or a community are not the majority anymore, and companies will do what is in their best interests to sell/entice the majority of customers. Firaxis and 2k do what is in their best business interests. Even Sid Meier knows he can't make games unless they're profitable, nice guy as Sid is.

    Of course, you're welcome to go make the perfect for you civ game yourself and play it alone. Seems more productive than complaining about Civ V.
     
  10. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    I rally hate the new 'social network' trend, but whatever...

    You said:

    Do you know what Steamworks gets those of you who don't play MP/want a community/to play with friends? It gets you development time on things you do care about - AI, an entirely new graphics engine, a program that can use multiple cores to increase turn times, brand now subsystems. That's right boys and girls, development time costs MONEY and is LIMITED. They can't just hold back a game until it's ready to release, at some point it has to produce revenue. So by adding Steamworks they can focus that time on things that yes, even you, will enjoy. So don't say Steamworks brings you nothing.

    Do you mean that, thanks to Steam, Civilizations V will run (or faster, or better), or what do you mean? Because if you mean what I said, that sounds like complete nonsense too me. But, please explain.
     
  11. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    Doesn't matter. It's profitable, companies make games to make profit, in the end. Sid may not, but Firaxis/2k aren't a charity.

    Yes, and it's not nonsense. Because development time is finite. So by having Steamworks to take care of the social networking side of things, they now have more development time to allocate to other things, like gameplay, AIs, and yes, program code optimization/improvement.

    As a modder if I have a list of things I want to get done and someone comes by and does a large chunk of a few time-consuming ones for me... I can then get everything else done, maybe add some other features, or optimize the features I have added already. It's the same thing with Steamworks - it handles patching, multiplayer, servers to distribute the patching, and achivement/community coding. Even if you don't use them, having the work on them done for the devs already benefits you in allowing them to have more time to work on other things.
     
  12. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Oh, ok, I understand. That does make sense indeed. What does Steam exactly do then? I'm just asking, I didn't know.

    Yeah, I realized my opinion (of course) doesn't matter. That's why I said whatever. I just stated my opinion.
     
  13. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    Steamworks handles the code and work for (or gives as a benefit)

    Stats & Achievements
    Multi-player Authentication/Authorization
    Peer To Peer Multi-player Authentication/Authorization
    Matchmaking
    Community (including Clans, events, etc)
    Peer-to-peer networking
    Steam Cloud
    Valve Anti-Cheat
    VoIP
    DRM (Of a far less invasive sort than ubisoft/securom/tages, with no install limit)
    DLC (Distribution and verification)
    Patches
    Digital Distribution (and distribution of Mods)
    Top-Tier advertisements in Steam

    (Yes, this sounds like an advertising blurb because I copypasta'd it from Steam's site for developers.)
     
  14. Craxymaxy

    Craxymaxy Warlord

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    No one likes DRM but it does make piracy a pain in the ass for the hacker and the user which i would think would reduce the number of pirates because if its really easy for the user to pirate then a lot of people will but if it requires them to do technical stuff and go on special pirate servers then a lot of the casual pirates would prolly chose to buy the game instead.

    There is no point trying to stop the free-loaders who refuse to buy games, they will always find a way.
     
  15. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Its impossible to stop the hardcore pirates but you can deter the casual ones.

    Torrents are slow. If you don't know much about them you can get a fake one with a virus. Mounting disc images is a waste of hard disc space. Using no-cd cracks means you get stuck on an old buggy version and has the risks associated with going to dodgy sites of people who are already working outside the law. Keygens are even worse than no-cd cracks.

    Because I'm not an idiot and have configured my Steam properly, all I do is double click on the game icon on the desktop, Steam takes 10 seconds to log in and the game begins. No pop-ups, auto-updates get paused except for when my computer is idle.

    To install a game I double click on it in the menu. It then downloads at the maximum speed my connection allows. Or if I'm reinstalling I'll use one of the backups I made because I have a generous but not unlimited bandwidth cap. It gets updated to the correct version and often gets specific fixes required applied.

    Steam is easier than piracy.
     
  16. eireksten

    eireksten Protective/Organized

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    Not to mention that if it is too easy, many won't even realize that what they're doing is illegal.

    For my part, I'd rather work a couple of hours overtime to buy a game legally than to spend those same couple of hours pirating that game so I can have it "for free".
     
  17. Craxymaxy

    Craxymaxy Warlord

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    exactly
     
  18. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    DRM makes it harder for the professional hackers to crack the game, which they will do anyway. The people who simply want the game aren't in the least bit affected by extra DRM, except if the game can't be cracked, which today is impossible to my knowledge. Yeah, torrents take a few days, so what? I would gladly wait a week if that meant saving 50 Euros or something. Before the 'PIRATE!' messages appear, I should mention that it would have to be legal too...Anyone with a bit of common sense will read the reactions before downloading torrents, and will only use trusted sites. Like <snip>. Mounting disc images may indeed waste hard disc space, so does Steam. And discs can be unmounted at any time without losing the ability to play the game.<snip>
    Moderator Action: We have zero tolerance for piracy, please don't give directions to pirate sites
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  19. Craxymaxy

    Craxymaxy Warlord

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    I personally wouldn't want to wait 5 or so days to get a sub-pare clone of a game
     
  20. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    But seeing as it is exactly the same game without the hassle of DRM...
     

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