Civ 6 Deity Tier List –– discussing DLC civs now, R&F civs starting 2/19

[Ornen]

Welcome to the Deity Tier List thread for Civ 6, as based on adwcta's list for BNW. This list only applies to how well these civs perform on Deity single player. As in that thread, so in this one:

The ranking basically ranks how "easy"/"smooth" it is to win with each particular civ given a random start. Blatant exploits they'll probably fix in upcoming patches, etc are not taken into account.​

I expect to change this list quite a bit in the near future, both as we get a feel for these civs’ mechanics and as new updates and civs/leaders roll out. I’ll also probably add a middle tier in the near future, as well as markers to denote which civs perform better on pangaea or archipelago map types.

Deity Tier List
For standard speed and, for now, all map types. Assume no re-rolling starts, which means start bias and flexibility are taken into account. Strongest leader listed per civ. Last updated 12/26/16.

A Tier: Significantly stronger than most of the other civs.
Rome
Sumeria
Aztec
Scythia
Persia
Nubia
Macedon

B Tier: Great. Strong bonuses make this a powerful set of civs.
Germany
Greece (Gorgo)
Russia
Arabia
China
Australia

C Tier: Solid. Good civs that can be great in the right circumstances.
Poland
Kongo
Brazil
USA
France
England
Indonesia

D Tier: Subpar. Situational bonuses that aren’t always helpful.
Japan
Spain
Egypt
Norway
India
Khmer

 

[Ornen]

Update 3, 2/7/2018:

• Up: None
• Down: Poland (C), Kongo (C), Germany (C), India (D)
• New: Persia (A), Macedon (A), Nubia (A), Australia (B), Indonesia (C), Khmer (D)

Update 2, 12/26/2016:

• Up: Kongo (B)
• Down: Germany (B), Greece (B), England (C), Japan (D)
• New: Poland, at B Tier. Strong overall with a very nice t1 UB.
• The civs are a bit more balanced now, with 12/20 falling in the middle tiers.
• Biggest balance changes were the district, stacking, and production/science changes. The district hit was big for many of our top civs, but Germany at least benefits from their free district, which is all the more valuable .
• The stacking change hurts Germany and Japan more than others, while helping civs that get other boosts to amenities or production, such as Rome, Aztecs, or Kongo.
• Meanwhile, the science/culture cost increase helps Arabia and China, among others, but not enough to move them up a level.
• While they've nerfed factory stacking, early conquest remains a very powerful strategy, and very much seems to be the best opener in most Civ 6 games. Our remaining A Tier civs are all focused on early expansion and development, though some of these civs, such as Rome and Aztec, receive other significant bonuses to early development.

Update 1, 11/7/2016. Moved several civs up into the A tier. The opening turns feel significantly more important than the rest of the game, and these four civs – Aztec, Sumeria, Rome, and Scythia – excel at exploiting the early game and displacing foes early. Three of them also have bonuses to development from there; the fourth, Scythia, is just so damn strong at conquest it doesn’t even need them. Right now, I feel it’s more appropriate to have several civs up here, rather than just a couple. Deity C6 is easier than Deity BNW, and all of these civs are highly adept at winning games.

Three civs move up into the B tier as well: England, China, and Arabia. I was on the line about Kongo, but found that – barring what seems to be a bug that allows them to rack up just insane tourism – their bonuses are good but not great, somewhat situational, and their best bonuses take some effort to achieve.

The civs in C Tier aren’t bad, but they’re not amazing either. Japan falls here. They get a boost to three districts, but not all of these districts are necessarily worth it – the encampment and holy site in particular seem underpowered, given the encampment bonus is so delayed and religion is so hard to achieve on deity, even with their bonus. France, meanwhile, moves up from the D Tier: the bonus to espionage helps when the AI is almost by default going to lead you in tech during the midgame. Egypt moves down, as none of their bonuses seem especially helpful.

Discussion Index
1: OP
2: Spain, England
3: Russia, England, Egypt, India, USA
4: Kongo, Russia, India, China
5: Kongo, England, Arabia, China
6: List update. Arabia, Scythia
7: Fall ‘16 Patch. Rome, Germany
8: USA, new patch discussion.
9: Greece, Rome, USA, Kongo
10: Greece, thread discussion
11: USA, Sumeria, Rome
12: Rome, England, USA
13: Rome, Sumeria, Greece

Initial notes:
For now, I’ll grade multi-leader civs based on the strongest leader and include that leader in the tier list. The civs in the A tier are all very strong, with many weighted to bonuses to early expansion and development. The B tier is also very strong. The C tier is solid as well, with a lot of good bonuses. For the most part, though, they don’t add up quite as well as the civs in B tier. At least so far, the D tier civs seem substantially weaker than their compatriots.

Again, expect plenty of updates. Not only do I expect patches and DLC civs in the near future, but I also suspect that our understanding of the game and civs right now is far from perfect.

I've shortened this initial post, but you can read the original notes I posted here.

 

[moysturfurmer]

Nice work. A minor note. If tier 1 is significantly ahead of the rest of the pack, and if tier 1 is made up of only two civs, would it not make more sense for that tier to be Tier S? And then tier 2, the best of the non-broken civs, would be Tier A.

Minor thing, really tiny. Nice work.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

This seems just about spot-on to me. The more I think about Greece the more I think they're level with Germany. Every single bonus Greece gets is strong. I'm surprised to see USA and India make C instead of D tier. Then again, taking out a neighbor with the +5 continent combat bonus or the Varu is probably pretty good.

I can't wait for Russia to get a real leader. It's going to be awesome.

 

[Marvinlegend]

Sumerias warcarts only in the second tier? Damn, I must play Greece (;

 

[Dargov]

China needs to go up a Tier to B. I appreciate the bonuses are nearly invisible, but the increased boosts and additional worker charges are incredibly useful.

Is Sumeria teir B (not A) due to Warcarts not being good enough vs diety AI? I find it very hard to see how the additional land grab is not as valuable as the Hanse. (not debating the strength of the Hanse)

 

[Frank327]

I think what makes England better than it seems is that while the archeology museums is only for cultural victories, you only need to combine it with one wonder (terracotta army) and one great person (atomic era great scientist) to rival any other civ in terms of tourism. Combine that with the fact that you're likely settling near the coast a lot and seaside resorts being powerful and you get one of the best civs for cultural victories while being able to focus on expansion and military in the early game.

 

[MadDjinn]

interesting list, but clearly biased by playstyle desire and not what is actually beneficial on deity, per se.

IE, to claim that Frances free very early spy does nothing on deity, when all AIs are handed 4 free eurekas per era that you can go steal, is a little odd.

 

[Ornen]

Nice work. A minor note. If tier 1 is significantly ahead of the rest of the pack, and if tier 1 is made up of only two civs, would it not make more sense for that tier to be Tier S? And then tier 2, the best of the non-broken civs, would be Tier A.

I'll probably switch it to S when we add another middle tier.

I'm surprised to see USA and India make C instead of D tier. Then again, taking out a neighbor with the +5 continent combat bonus or the Varu is probably pretty good.

The +5 early combined with a lategame UB that actually closes games is enough for the USA in my book, but I'll have to play with them soon to test it out. The Varu and Stepwell both seem good but not great. Stepwell seems like one of the better UIs, but I really think it needs an amenity bonus to match. India (and Kongo) seem designed for tall play, which I'm not sure is as strong in this Civ. I'll have to give it a try soon.

Sumerias warcarts only in the second tier? Damn, I must play Greece (;

Second tier is very good! The warcart is an excellent UU, but just doesn't quite match the best UB in the game or a free wild card from the start, especially when you combine those with other strong abilities.

China needs to go up a Tier to B. I appreciate the bonuses are nearly invisible, but the increased boosts and additional worker charges are incredibly useful.

Is Sumeria teir B (not A) due to Warcarts not being good enough vs diety AI? I find it very hard to see how the additional land grab is not as valuable as the Hanse. (not debating the strength of the Hanse)

I was on the fence about China, and their a strong candidate to move up into another middle tier. The worker bonus is significant, and I'll have to add up how much total production it saves in the early game. I'm not in love with the rest of their bonuses, but could see them moving up.

I think what makes England better than it seems is that while the archeology museums is only for cultural victories, you only need to combine it with one wonder (terracotta army) and one great person (atomic era great scientist) to rival any other civ in terms of tourism. Combine that with the fact that you're likely settling near the coast a lot and seaside resorts being powerful and you get one of the best civs for cultural victories while being able to focus on expansion and military in the early game.

A strong case, but we're getting close to the logic for Carthage in Civ 5 – "Well, if you do this and this and this, they become very strong" is not an especially strong argument. The GS boost is massive, but you might not even get a swipe at it, making it especially chancy. I'm playing as England right now though, and they are a solid civ.

interesting list, but clearly biased by playstyle desire and not what is actually beneficial on deity, per se.

IE, to claim that Frances free very early spy does nothing on deity, when all AIs are handed 4 free eurekas per era that you can go steal, is a little odd.

It's early enough that any list is necessarily going to be playstyle-limited. Espionage is one of the mechanics I've played with least, and I'll have to test out France's ability. Even with it, that's one extra spy you have to produce and send out on missions, no small effort for a few eurekas. And the rest of her kit isn't exactly overwhelming. In the initial tier list thread for Civ 6, pretty much no one was speaking up on Catherine's behalf. And her bonuses don't seem like much, at least on paper. But again, this is something I'd consider revising once we've had more time to play the game. I'm glad to see someone stepping forward to make the case for her.

 

[MadDjinn]

well, on that note then, you points about Spain and getting a religion is a little off as well. Getting a religion on deity is pretty much rote work for me even when I play someone who doesn't have a 'fast religion' mechanic.

the only question is: will it be the 3rd religion (AI always takes the same ones in the same order, so that'd be jesuit missionaries) or will it be the 4th-5th one.

 

[Esperr]

I mostly agree. I think China should be one tier higher though and India should be one tier lower. The best civs are ussually the ones that have a high early impact, and China's worker bonus is definitely there.

 

[Esperr]

well, on that note then, you points about Spain and getting a religion is a little off as well. Getting a religion on deity is pretty much rote work for me even when I play someone who doesn't have a 'fast religion' mechanic.

the only question is: will it be the 3rd religion (AI always takes the same ones in the same order, so that'd be jesuit missionaries) or will it be the 4th-5th one.

Ive found the opposite to be true, getting a religion is next to impossible on deity. Maybe if I went out of my way, but then you fall behind even more.

 

[Ornen]

well, on that note then, you points about Spain and getting a religion is a little off as well. Getting a religion on deity is pretty much rote work for me even when I play someone who doesn't have a 'fast religion' mechanic.

the only question is: will it be the 3rd religion (AI always takes the same ones in the same order, so that'd be jesuit missionaries) or will it be the 4th-5th one.

Is this with 2x holy site into religious projects? I'll have to try it out. It's a big investment in the early game, but a necessary one if you want their bonuses. They're another on my list to try out, but my Q's would be: how big is the relg push effect on Spain's early game? And how strong is their midgame to make up for it?

How does their strength bonus compare against what US and Japan get for free? I'm generally a little more suspicious of bonuses you have to work for vs those you get for free.

 

[I_Am_King_Midas]

Thanks for the list. I think it would be better if you did it per leader instead of per Civ. I think this is going to cause confusion when people don't know who you are referencing. What if who the strongest leader changes, or what if people are looking for the weaker of the pair? It's just better to have everyone listed.

 

[MadDjinn]

Is this with 2x holy site into religious projects? I'll have to try it out. It's a big investment in the early game, but a necessary one if you want their bonuses. They're another on my list to try out, but my Q's would be: how big is the relg push effect on Spain's early game? And how strong is their midgame to make up for it?

How does their strength bonus compare against what US and Japan get for free? I'm generally a little more suspicious of bonuses you have to work for vs those you get for free.

2 cities into prayers works the most consistently yes. It's not so bad that you can't switch into units or other if needed wrt barbs or AIs.

the 'push effect' depends on what you're doing with them. go tithe/etc, and choose mass spread options and you'll pay for a lot of stuff. Go culture boosters and you need less theatres to get civics, etc.

the +4 combat strength bonus works for both combat units and theological units; therefore it neuters the AIs +4 difficulty level bonus. extra inquisitor removal helps if you get swamped.

Conquistadors work for a long time. Equal to the units around early industrial in strength when properly boosted. plus no nitre lock.
On this note though, I give any civ that has a direct replacement unit a ++ vs anyone that has to go and make a UU from scratch.

The trade route booster is always great. Early fleets just depends on the amount of water on the map, but since it's a small bonus anyways, so is it's loss (small) if you're on a Pangaea.

The mission.. I liked it less, but then I saw that the text for it is actually poor. It's 1 faith on capitals continent, 3 faith on any other one. 1 science by a campus, +2 more (possibly need to build one later to verify) later game with a civic.

 

[LanguishViking]

I think what makes England better than it seems is that while the archeology museums is only for cultural victories, you only need to combine it with one wonder (terracotta army) and one great person (atomic era great scientist) to rival any other civ in terms of tourism. Combine that with the fact that you're likely settling near the coast a lot and seaside resorts being powerful and you get one of the best civs for cultural victories while being able to focus on expansion and military in the early game.

Yes, England, so famous for it's seaside resorts.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

On this note though, I give any civ that has a direct replacement unit a ++ vs anyone that has to go and make a UU from scratch.

Why? Isn't it better to have all the normal units and the unique, for maximum flexibility?

 

[brs112]

Why? Isn't it better to have all the normal units and the unique, for maximum flexibility?

Generally it's easier to spend gold to upgrade an existing unit than to spend production on them (especially in this game with so much to produce, and the policy that gives a 50% reduction in upgrade cost). For example I tend to build many archers and then upgrade them all into crossbowman when the tech is finished, preferring to produce a unit for 2-3 turns and spend ~80 gold than to produce a unit in 8 turns.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Generally it's easier to spend gold to upgrade an existing unit than to spend production on them (especially in this game with so much to produce, and the policy that gives a 50% reduction in upgrade cost). For example I tend to build many archers and then upgrade them all into crossbowman when the tech is finished, preferring to produce a unit for 2-3 turns and spend ~80 gold than to produce a unit in 8 turns.

Hmm, that's a fair point.

 

[xDaunt]

I'm surprised to see USA and India make C instead of D tier. Then again, taking out a neighbor with the +5 continent combat bonus or the Varu is probably pretty good.

I can't speak for India, but the +5 continental combat bonus for the US is incredibly useful given 1) you're guaranteed to be attacked on deity, and 2) seizing a neighbor's land and capital in an early war is about as strong of a start as you can get to a game.