Civ 6 Deity Tier List –– discussing DLC civs now, R&F civs starting 2/19

[Ornen]

Since we've got a balance patch + 2 more civs in the works, I'm holding off on updating the list for the time being. That said, I'm currently thinking of starting Australia in the B tier – their bonuses are very nice, but still not blowing me away. So far I've played one and a half games with them, and I wasn't always able to get the +4 bonus on appeal. It's still a strong bonus, and one that can be very strong on the right terrain. But I'm not ready to put them in the A tier as of yet. For one, it's situational; for another, those choice appeal tiles often conflict with your best mine areas, which will drive down that appeal; for another, those bonuses are most meaningful earlier in the game, when the most successful strategies focus on early conquest, which might mean delaying those campuses. Maybe the best strat with them is to turtle/tech to second gen units and conquer from there? Something I'd like to try.

I like their outback station quite a bit, also. They can be killer food/prod tiles, especially in the late game, which is useful when it comes time to crank out your spaceship parts. The housing bonus can be very strong, but is also situational, as many of the best city spots will be inland. It definitely gives Aus more options, though, and is especially powerful when you stack on a colosseum. Again, turtle/tech into midgame conquest really interests me here. Especially with the big production bonus, I'm honestly thinking of Australia as as much of a military powerhouse as a tech civ.

Also, one of the strengths of the science & conquest victories: they go very well together. Much easier to pick between those two in the midgame than if you commit to culture or religion, each of which lead you down a more specific path earlier in the game.

 

[Ornen]

Thoughts on the new patch? https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/61u88a/civilization_vi_spring_2017_update_patch_notes/

Obviously a big boost to England, which has much nicer harbors and a big leg up on trade compared to the other civs. Not a lot else jumps out to me. A solid nerf to Australia, slightly cancelled out by the harbor changes. A slight nerf to civs with a unique swordsman, including Rome & Kongo.

It's too soon for me to judge Persia or Macedon, but it's easy to see how they can get big boosts to (and from) early conquest, which could make them pretty formidable. We'll see how they play.

 

[MIS]

My thoughts - Winter patch I thought Australia was Tier A; it's definitely not now. I think England moves up to B. The two new civs seem strong. DLCs are often OP to get people to buy them, and then get toned down (just like Australia). I think a lot will depend on how much better the AI is at combat.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

Sea Dogs are now working correctly, also a boon for England. Testing them out a bit, it seems England can amass quite a large navy by rushing Mercantilism.

 

[Chibisuke]

The nerf to Australia is not that big to be honest. -1 to each of their appeal bonuses (except when next to harbor) is noticeable but not really enough to change my analysis on them. The fact that harbor is being buffed helps them, since they can take unusually high benefit from coastal cities.

 

[joncnunn]

England likely moves up to tier A with the Spring patch; they are now able to build 2 trade routes per coastal city (from both their unique district and Commercial Hub) while everyone else can only get 1 trade route per city.

On Australia; also note that the Spring patch fixes the bug in which a mine / query cost 2 levels of appeal for all adjoining tiles instead of just 1; so the decrease in appeal bonuses may have just been almost completely cancelled out by mines / queries not damaging appeal so much.

 

[Ornen]

England likely moves up to tier A with the Spring patch; they are now able to build 2 trade routes per coastal city (from both their unique district and Commercial Hub) while everyone else can only get 1 trade route per city.

On Australia; also note that the Spring patch fixes the bug in which a mine / query cost 2 levels of appeal for all adjoining tiles instead of just 1; so the decrease in appeal bonuses may have just been almost completely cancelled out by mines / queries not damaging appeal so much.

Oh, nice! That's actually pretty significant, especially since those high appeal tiles are often by mountain ranges, which also means some of your best production tiles. Now there's much less of a tradeoff between production and getting that appeal bonus.

The nerf to Australia is not that big to be honest. -1 to each of their appeal bonuses (except when next to harbor) is noticeable but not really enough to change my analysis on them. The fact that harbor is being buffed helps them, since they can take unusually high benefit from coastal cities.

I don't think the nerf was all that bad to them either, but I also think their bonuses were a little overstated to begin with. In many cities, you're going to be stuck with the +1 bonus, which is far from impressive. Overall, I haven't seen a wild amount of comparisons between them and other civs. I'm really interested in comparing them to China, for example – another development-focused civ, with strong bonuses to technology. Is +1 to +3 science per campus that wild of a bonus compared to China's, which is equally strong across all eras of the game? (Aus's strongest in the classical era. Nonexistant at the start of the game, falls off as the game goes on)

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

I think Australia's strength is their adaptability to map randomness. You're almost guaranteed to get at least 1 or 2 very early +3, +4 (or more) holy sites, campii, or theater squares (which is usually the hardest to get a bonus), and they can basically completely ignore housing for quite a while. China is also very flexible, I think they are sort of on par, because Australia's outback stations will help them use bad tiles (desert, etc) in the midgame.

I've played around a little with the Persian UI... it isn't as good as the stations, but because you can place them anywhere really (except next to each other) and they give culture or gold depending on what districts they are next to, help you adapt to any early deficiencies. They can also be easily replaced with other improvements if need be throughout the game... have to kind of suss out a few plays with them to get an idea about placement strategies. Persia is a very good early rush civ, I played 2 games this morning and was able to take out my neighbors on Deity with 2-3 Immortals (upgrade from warriors) and 2 archers (slinger upgrade) and a heavy chariot. The surprise war thing (they get half weariness and warmonger penalties for surprise wars), with the relative strength of the immortals and the extra movement, I was able to take several cities very fast. The movement also applies to your civilian units as well. I think they are solidly B+ A-, or something like that. Just initial impressions though

 

[Victoria]

England likely moves up to tier A with the Spring patch; they are now able to build 2 trade routes per coastal city (from both their unique district and Commercial Hub) while everyone else can only get 1 trade route per city.

I have seen a few similar comments in posts about england being tier A and am confused because they used to be teir C with 2 trade routes. Now they get it back it suddenly makes them A? Agreed she is the only one but is that criteria for a good bump?
The lighthouse and shipyard or corrections for everyone but do help Vicky also

As @MaximusPlatypus said above, seadog mercantilism strategy is quite cool. Victoria is quite a flexible civ to play and I have noticed that fast theming museums does shave quite a few turns off.I still strongly contend her real strngth lies with Pax Brittanica in the mid game. She is the type of civ you can turtle a bit then attack later and a lack of Niter means little.

Is she A? the strength is not early so not in my opinion. IDC really where she is as long as I can play her... Some complexity and great flexibility... BTW, I have only once played an island map, I mostly play continents.

 

[MIS]

What do people think of Macedon? Part of their bonus (if there is a wonder, holy site etc. in the victim's city) would scale very well with Deity.

 

[King Jason]

I have seen a few similar comments in posts about england being tier A and am confused because they used to be teir C with 2 trade routes. Now they get it back it suddenly makes them A? Agreed she is the only one but is that criteria for a good bump?

Considering how powerful trade routes are, I would say yes. The other part of it to consider is that Dockyards remain half cost. Currently there are no Unique commercial hubs and Harbors get major bonuses now for being next to city center, and both Harbors and Hubs take a similar amount of time to get to in the tech tree. All this translates to a coastal England being able to get their trade infrastructure online a lot faster than everyone else. Many players build the commercial hub with it's +2 bonus and to get the trade route and will delay the market a bit, which in terms of gold, places a harbor by a city and a hub on a river on equal terms.

The reason why this was never a big deal for england before is because harbors were underwhelming, so spamming them for early trade infrastructure meant redudant overlap with hubs in your cities and most people wouldn't choose harbors over hubs. Now, they don't have too. They can get quick harbors online, more trade routes, which means more production and growth, and then they can still add in the hubs and double their trading potential plus get the district that offers better gold.

Having the potential to have twice as many trade routes in an empire is pretty substantial, imo.

 

[Chibisuke]

If England's harbor still didn't count against the population cap I would see how people could consider the Harbor buff being so huge for them though I don't know if id say A tier.

However, realistically it takes a long time before it would make sense and be feasible to have both a harbor and commercial hub in multiple cities. It is much more likely that a deity player is balancing theatre district, campus and industrial districts while having either a commercial hub OR a harbor. Having the luxury to have both commercial and harbor is very unlikely in most instances. So I don't think it's some huge deal.

 

[Victoria]

Most of the time I use harbors rather than hubs to get TR going so its nothing new. Maybe people just don't play her like I do and think she's suddenly +2 levels. I still contend that Pax Britannica is her most powerful asset and useable from start to end with great flexibility (and an exploit)
What you get now is more trade routes (which they had before)+2 production from a crappy shipyard (did I spell that right?) the +1 food from lighthouses is pretty nice and has some cunning uses I must try out.
I'm with @Chibisuke

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

The extra food from lighthouses helps you place other districts faster.. if you can get the commercial hub on the mouth of a river next to the RND, it's just a huge gold bonus. England is the only civ where it's probably better to place your harbors first

 

[Victoria]

It takes a bit of getting used to because the techs are not normally ones you would use early... and not always best to use early
Vicky can be quite tricky

 

[MIS]

Victoria, I think you play England more than anyone, where would you put her? Tier B?

 

[Victoria]

Not sure the criteria is clear enough

She is I would say B for deity play in general I guess
To me she is A for flexibility and variety, many times I never bother building ships or boats.
I just find Pax Britannica very handy.

 

[King Jason]

Most of the time I use harbors rather than hubs to get TR going so its nothing new. Maybe people just don't play her like I do and think she's suddenly +2 levels.

No, she was buffed. So people think she's +2 levels.

What you get now is more trade routes (which they had before)

Yes, and everyone else on this list had that too, which meant England still sucked. Now they've taken a mechanic that was nerfed because it was too powerful and brought it back as a unique bonus for only one civ. That equates to a power increase for that civ.

 

[joncnunn]

I have seen a few similar comments in posts about england being tier A and am confused because they used to be teir C with 2 trade routes. Now they get it back it suddenly makes them A? Agreed she is the only one but is that criteria for a good bump?
The lighthouse and shipyard or corrections for everyone but do help Vicky also
.

Back before Australian Summer patch, while she had 2 trade routes per city, so did everyone else.
With Spring patch, it's a lot like Civ V's Venice which needed the inability to build settlers to balance out 2X trade routes.

 

[Victoria]

Lol, well I suggest you play her after a Rome game and note the lack of power at the start and the indecision you can then have in the tech tree.
I guess you can also argue she has no naff special abilities
If you think she is an A after playing her then I am 100% in support of you