civ 6 is a good game with issues.

[Zaarin]

I for one will not buy civ 7 until either Korea or Maori is in the game... and hopefully we have better leader than seonduk. (BRING BACK SEJONG THE GREAT TO CIV)

While I think Seondeok was a great choice, I would love to see Korea finally break out of the science civ bubble. Not counting on it, though. It's too ingrained in the franchise. We've had Wang Geon and Sejong in the past; maybe we could have Gwanggaeto next time around.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

While I think Seondeok was a great choice

She was a terrible choice and downgrade from Sejong the great. Heck Sejong is one king who nearly EVERY KOREANS RESPECT HIM. Seondok and Wang Geon was only there because of K-drama.
We should have Jeongjo

 

[Zaarin]

She was a terrible choice and downgrade from Sejong the great. Heck Sejong is one king who nearly EVERY KOREANS RESPECT HIM.

National popularity is hardly a metric for a historical assessment. Seondeok is unpopular because Confucian Joseon historians launched a smear campaign against her because Confucianism does not approve of female rulers (see also: Wu Zetian); contemporary (Buddhist) historians praised Seondeok's intelligence, intuition, and piety. I understand Joseon is important to Korean nationalism, but Korean history is longer than Joseon.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Seondeok is unpopular because Confucian Joseon historians launched a smear campaign against her because Confucianism does not approve of female rulers (see also: Wu Zetian); contemporary (Buddhist) historians praised Seondeok's intelligence, intuition, and piety. I understand Joseon is important to Korean nationalism, but Korean history is longer than Joseon.

that judgement comes from current scholars NOT from Joseon scholars. for example professor Seo Young-kyo said
"
although when she was young she was wise she lost its brilliance when she became a haggard old woman.
She did not make any effort to realistically solve the reality she faced. The economic power that should have been expended to enhance the military power was wasted on immortally.
She had borrowed from her faith the strength to endure hardship, and her soul had already been to the wonders of the Buddha. The body that contained her mind was not healthy either."

 

[Zaarin]

The same could be said of Elizabeth I: in her older years she largely lost interest in ruling and was wracked by "melancholy" (i.e., depression) and nerves, but she's still regarded as one of England's greatest rulers. At any rate, the devs made it clear from the beginning that their goal for Civ6 was to select the most interesting rulers, not necessarily the best. CdM, Hojo Tokimune, Jadwiga, Tomyris, and even Teddy Roosevelt are all examples of that design philosophy in action; honestly I wish they had been bolder in some of their choices--e.g., Qin Shi Huang, Pachacuti, and Victoria were rather safe, boring choices.

At any rate, this discussion is hardly relevant to this thread, and Seondeok has been criticized in enough threads to hardly merit a new one. I was very pleased by the selection of Seondeok; you're naturally free to think differently.

 

[Aristos]

Seondok and Wang Geon was only there because of K-drama.

.... Good one!

 

[Heyesey]

I for one will not buy civ 7 until either Korea or Maori is in the game... and hopefully we have better leader than seonduk. (BRING BACK SEJONG THE GREAT TO CIV)

Personally I don't understand why people pay money for a game that isn't finished yet. I will buy it once they announce the final update has been released, and not before. And given the New Frontiers Pass thing with Civ6, that could mean a long wait.

 

[Aristos]

Personally I don't understand why people pay money for a game that isn't finished yet. I will buy it once they announce the final update has been released, and not before. And given the New Frontiers Pass thing with Civ6, that could mean a long wait.

That is part of the problem, there are strong signs that the "final update" has already been released... and in any case, even if that is not true, for me at least there are strong signs that if they release another update they will break more things than they fix, as has been happening during its entire cycle FMPV (gruesome example: when they "fixed" something with one of the unit orders, they broke the Alert order, and it took them months to re-fix that simple thing.)

 

[Evie]

Because, flawed or not, it's still fun.

I don't pay for perfection. I pay for entertainment. The game might have entertained me more than it did, without frustrations asscoiated with flaws, but it still entertained me, so I still got my money's worth,

 

[UWHabs]

Because, flawed or not, it's still fun.

I don't pay for perfection. I pay for entertainment. The game might have entertained me more than it did, without frustrations asscoiated with flaws, but it still entertained me, so I still got my money's worth,

I'm at almost 2000 hours of gametime, and have spent what, maybe 200-300 dollars on the game? So, yeah, it's not perfect, and would love to see a few more things balanced or cleaned up, but it's hard to argue with the time I put into it, or that even if I put it aside for a few weeks, I still come back to give it another run.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Because, flawed or not, it's still fun.

I don't pay for perfection. I pay for entertainment. The game might have entertained me more than it did, without frustrations asscoiated with flaws, but it still entertained me, so I still got my money's worth,

Like I said before I often lose myself in civ 6 and civ 6 is still a "time machine " that can only go forward. As long as game can do that and not feel like a chores.... it is a good game

.... Good one!

It is true. They both have a Korean Drama that is literally named after them-Taejo Wang Geon in 2000 and Queen Seondeok in 2009.

 

[Aristos]

It is true. They both have a Korean Drama that is literally named after them-Taejo Wang Geon in 2000 and Queen Seondeok in 2009.

I believe you. That is why you made me laugh.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

another thing I like civ 6 over civ 5 is that they have some new civs that they never touched before- like Australia, Canada, Maori, Vietnam, Georgia, Scotland, and Gaul.

 

[Heyesey]

That is part of the problem, there are strong signs that the "final update" has already been released... and in any case, even if that is not true, for me at least there are strong signs that if they release another update they will break more things than they fix, as has been happening during its entire cycle FMPV (gruesome example: when they "fixed" something with one of the unit orders, they broke the Alert order, and it took them months to re-fix that simple thing.)

I think that's on me for not clarifying, I meant expansions rather than bugfixes. When Civ7 comes out, they're not gettting a penny until at least two expansions have been released. I don't pay three times for one game.

 

[Aristos]

I think that's on me for not clarifying, I meant expansions rather than bugfixes. When Civ7 comes out, they're not gettting a penny until at least two expansions have been released. I don't pay three times for one game.

That's on me too. When civ 5 came out, I was one of the harshest critics to the point of almost getting drowned in trouble here. So I decided to wait and not put a penny into it until I saw or read that there were real improvements, and only if on sale. When BNW came out, and the reactions were extremely positive, I waited for a good sale and got the whole thing at a big discount. After playing it (a lot), it was clear to me that Ed Beach saved the initial disaster that Jon created. The game was truly much much better than vanilla in every single sense, including the AI.

Fast forward a few years, and when I knew Ed would be the lead for civ 6, I just assumed that FXS was back on track and that Ed would make a masterpiece of civ 6, so I pre-ordered de "luxury" edition of whatever it was called. Big mistake.

Now the lesson is deeply engrained, to the point that it may have become much more than "never preorder civ again".

 

[Linklite]

Now the lesson is deeply engrained, to the point that it may have become more than "never preorder civ again".

Eh, I learned with Mario Tennis Aces to never preorder pretty much any game unless prepared to pay that much for a game that shockingly underperforms to expectations. Hopefully, it wouldn't come to that, but having preordered a tennis game that didn't let you play a set, it was a wake up call. Civ is just too volatile in reaction to small changes - you don't have to change much to make an amazing game rubbish or vice versa - for me to preorder. I won't buy until I get solid reviews and assessments on it.

 

[Aristos]

Eh, I learned with Mario Tennis Aces to never preorder pretty much any game unless prepared to pay that much for a game that shockingly underperforms to expectations. Hopefully, it wouldn't come to that, but having preordered a tennis game that didn't let you play a set, it was a wake up call. Civ is just too volatile in reaction to small changes - you don't have to change much to make an amazing game rubbish or vice versa - for me to preorder. I won't buy until I get solid reviews and assessments on it.

Yeap. The problem is, how do you get trustworthy reviews or assessments? I mean, how do you know which ones are trustworthy? Are gaming sites' reviews believable? All of them? Some, and which ones? Are opinions in forums like this trustworthy? How much, and which ones?

Bottom line: hard to evaluate without trying, but also hard to know when to trust an opinion, especially the ones that are "highly positive" (given the history of the industry in general, and the franchise in particular).

Still, lesson learned.

 

[Evie]

Out of curiosity, how many hours played do you actually have on civ 6?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

That's on me too. When civ 5 came out, I was one of the harshest critics to the point of almost getting drowned in trouble here. So I decided to wait and not put a penny into it until I saw or read that there were real improvements, and only if on sale. When BNW came out, and the reactions were extremely positive, I waited for a good sale and got the whole thing at a big discount. After playing it (a lot), it was clear to me that Ed Beach saved the initial disaster that Jon created. The game was truly much much better than vanilla in every single sense, including the AI.

Fast forward a few years, and when I knew Ed would be the lead for civ 6, I just assumed that FXS was back on track and that Ed would make a masterpiece of civ 6, so I pre-ordered de "luxury" edition of whatever it was called. Big mistake.

Now the lesson is deeply engrained, to the point that it may have become much more than "never preorder civ again".

You shouldn't pre-order any ges anyway... Cyberpunk had thought me that much.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

You shouldn't pre-order any ges anyway... Cyberpunk had thought me that much.

I haven't preordered anything at all in the past, and yet, I've already learned my lesson. In general, I should clarify.