Civ 6 makes me raze less.

[Leyrann]

I dont think most Americans even come close to remembering that the British RAZED the American capital Washington DC once in the War of 1812?

I think razing capitals should be remembered. But not some crap early city they built. Also relations matter and America and UK are strongest allies. Why would anyone let that past event lead to denouncements for centuries?

But Washington DC still stands. Looks to me like they just pillaged the districts then. Razing a city is more like plowing salt into the earth afterwards.

 

[Browd]

In Civ VI terms, it's as if the British pillaged the Palace (which you can't actually do in Civ VI). At that point, Washington city itself wasn't very developed, but the larger District of Columbia did include two towns that you might think of as "commercial hubs" (Georgetown and Alexandria), but neither of those was pillaged.

 

[Victoria]

Yeah, it was not exactly the asiatic vespers, if something like that happened I doubt we would be allies.
However memory of such events do eventually end up as half a page of scribbled lines somewhere

 

[GKShaman]

So I read up more on this:
http://ghostsofdc.org/2012/03/01/the-war-of-1812-and-relocating-the-nations-capital/

"The British commanders had orders to burn all public buildings in the capital, torching both the President’s House and the Capitol Building. Were it not for the courageous actions of First Lady Dolley Madison and President Madison’s personal servant and slave, Paul Jennings, many of the valuables on display in the White House today would have been lost forever."

It was so bad that Congress almost voted to move the Capitol to Philly or Georgetown.

But even if we dont want to take that - How about America's bombing of Japan? Oddly after tons of rebuilding America and Japan have a strong military alliance and the cherry trees were gifted to DC from Japan. Tons of random friendly events have happened.

Maybe more "good faith efforts" should be built into the game to help rebuild a war torn nation - but definitely not just random 1000s of years of hate for razing some crap city.

 

[Browd]

The cherry tree story goes back to well before WW2, with an initial gift of trees in 1912, and includes several post-WW2 gifts from Japan, and reciprocal gifts of cherry trees back to Japan to helpo restore original Japanese stock: https://www.nps.gov/subjects/cherryblossom/history-of-the-cherry-trees.htm

In Civ VI, you can make gifts to other civs, but the diplomatic effects can be pretty underwhelming and wear off fairly quickly.

 

[Victoria]

You will find after WWII china do not think so kindly of Japan

To me razing is about the wholesale slaughter of people so they cannot rebuild

The inhuman crimes committed however do fade unlike in civ

 

[nzcamel]

I dont think most Americans even come close to remembering that the British RAZED the American capital Washington DC once in the War of 1812?

I think razing capitals should be remembered. But not some crap early city they built. Also relations matter and America and UK are strongest allies. Why would anyone let that past event lead to denouncements for centuries?

As others have said, DC still stands to this day. Razing in Civ is more like genocide which the Brits didn't attempt. I appreciate however that 9 times out of 10 human players raze cities not for revenge, but because they don't like the location of the city....that or because they don't have enough amenities to keep it...

As some of us have said elsewhere, it'd be nice to have a way to undo a city or move it's center; esp when they're small...

 

[nzcamel]

You will find after WWII china do not think so kindly of Japan

While this is an example of what we're talking about, it's an exaggerated one. The Communist party stokes hatred of Japan to keep the focus off their own large atrocities.
In most cases the disquiet is real, but less pronounced than that one.

 

[Josephias]

I appreciate however that 9 times out of 10 human players raze cities not for revenge, but because they don't like the location of the city....that or because they don't have enough amenities to keep it...

As some of us have said elsewhere, it'd be nice to have a way to undo a city or move it's center; esp when they're small...

Indeed, I'm not inclined to raze cities, but in Civ III I was shameless with the deportation of conquered citizens to other areas of my empire, just to make the city dissapear (build worker on 1-pop city). It also helped cultural assimilation.

Then I used a "national" settler to build my own city in the sweet spot one or two tiles away of were the city was initially.

With districts, there could be an option to "upgrade" a district to be the new city center (but then, what should the old city center convert to?: a random district? the one replaced?, a new "historic"-type district that provided tourism (and housing)?) . I think it would mimic quite well what has happened in some historic cases, with the conquerors (or the own monarchs) settling in a small town closer to the old capitol, and making it flourish, while the old one becomes just a cute town.

 

[agonistes]

While this is an example of what we're talking about, it's an exaggerated one. The Communist party stokes hatred of Japan to keep the focus off their own large atrocities.
In most cases the disquiet is real, but less pronounced than that one.

South Koreans, from my experience, have long memories of WWII as well.

 

[nzcamel]

Oh, I'm not saying that Japan does not deserve resentment etc for their actions in WWII; and we know they're no where near as good at apologising for it is the Germans are, sadly to this very day (their guilt is very unhelpful 70 years on). I was just noting that the Rape of Nanking is too often trotted out by the Chinese government controlled media more as a tool; rather than as genuine hurt. Especially in light of that governments own actions against its own people.

 

[Victoria]

Especially in light of that governments own actions against its own people.

While this is an example of what we're talking about, it's an exaggerated one. The Communist party stokes hatred of Japan to keep the focus off their own large atrocities

While the Chinese people are not blameless by any means of democide the huge fight and loss the Chinese people suffered as allies has been severely underrecognised by the west apart from in text books.


however, it was just an example, I think the Asiatic vespers because of its age is the perfect example for this post of how things are just forgotten over time. True both parties no longer truly exist but if the did I doubt it would be strong in their minds. I think everyone agrees that a non degrading value is just rubbish.

 

[nzcamel]

While the Chinese people are not blameless by any means of democide the huge fight and loss the Chinese people suffered as allies has been severely underrecognised by the west apart from in text books.

Hell, I think most people are aware. Far more aware of that.... than of the record number of Chinese murdered by their own government.

however, it was just an example, I think the Asiatic vespers because of its age is the perfect example for this post of how things are just forgotten over time. True both parties no longer truly exist but if the did I doubt it would be strong in their minds. I think everyone agrees that a non degrading value is just rubbish.

I agree it should downgrade; and even more so in the case of "occupied" cities. While some in Strasbourg probably feel it should be part of Germany rather than France; or it's own State altogether; most residents probably don't give it a much of a second thought.