Civ 6 sub T300 science

[Peter Belanger]

Hello,

I have been playing civ6 for about three years now. First civ I have ever played. I play regularly on all standard in GS on prince. Meaning standard speed, continents, and no customizations whatsoever.

I do NOT understand how to get a science victory or any victory for that matter under 300. I am regularly around 325-350 I would say. I have searched forums, videos and everything for strategies on this and combined what I could but I still can't even come close, let alone on a deity difficulty.

I have seen many posts suggesting certain things like a second city by turn 20 and yet at the same time I believe the same post mentions going scout, slinger, warrior kinda thing. At that point I'd be at turn 30 or something before I even make a settler and settle. I don't know if I just suck at build orders or if maybe most of these people customize their maps to their advantage?

Any ideas to help me better at civ would be great!

 

[Vargas1]

Regarding early game build, on Prince I would go scout, slinger, then settler (unless you have great early food and could build a settler right after your scout, in which case I would go settler then slinger). If your capital starts with 6 prod (+2 for palace, +2 if you settle on plains hill, and +2 for working a tile) you'll build your scout in 5 turns, a slinger in 6, and depending on other worked tiles once you get a second citizen, a settler in 8-12. So with movement that would give you a second city anywhere from the 20-25 turn range. If you want to shorten that up, switch to building a settler as soon as you can (once you get your second citizen) and come back after to finish the slinger. But personally I like having the extra unit to help scout early and don't find the extra 3 turns or so that big a difference.

If you want a fast science victory, a couple of tips:

• Early/mid-game (up to t100-125) is all about expansion, whether peacefully or militarily. You certainly can win a tall science victory (even a fast one) but it's much easier to go wide - you can plop campuses in most cities, and then whatever other districts you need (often trade districts; see point below)
• Unless you're Korea or Maya, early science is often not the biggest issue. You don't want to fall behind but expansion and infrastructure is more important than early campuses. During this early phase, look to build high-adjacency campuses first and otherwise just build up your empire generally.
• Building lots of campuses is sort of a baseline to pump your science, but you can end up getting a lot more from other sources. Science city-states for sure - prioritize getting enough envoys in them for their bonuses. Build Kilwa at all costs. Aim for specific Great Scientists - Hypatia early (though can be tricky to get), Hildegard if you have a high-adjacency HS somewhere, Newton for sure. For the Great Scientists who give you tech boosts, hold on to them until you're in a position where they are likely to give you boosts you otherwise wouldn't get - for instance, there's no point in getting a free boost to military science if you're on the verge of killing someone with a knight.
• Culture is crucial. Not only getting you to stronger governments and policy cards, but the ultimate goal is getting you quickly to International Space Agency - I tend to end up suzerain of most city-states by late in the game, and this card gives a massive boost to science.
• Heading towards the end-game, you want to plan ahead (i) which cities will have a spaceport, (ii) how you will build them (production, faith, or gold purchasing), and (iii) which will be your main production city. I tend to shoot for 3 spaceport cities, but the key is identifying your main city early (i.e. the one that will run the first three projects and launch Exoplanet) and pumping it full of production - make sure there's a good IZ, lots of production tiles to work, and (crucially) start focusing trade routes from that city. When you get to either Democracy or Communism (I prefer Democracy b/c the int'l routes give more gold), you can slot in the policy cards that add significant production to trade routes - that plus Wisselbanken can give you a massive amount of production from trade. Ideally I want the main spaceport city to be over 250 production, with the others to be somewhere between 150 and 250 if possible. For other spaceport cities, some options are a good Petra city or a nice big sprawling coastal city with lots of resources (especially if you have Auckland in the game). Remember that you only need one spaceport until Exoplanet launches, since you can only run the projects in order, so no need to waste production or resources beforehand to build multiple - try to time it so that all will be up and running just before or as you launch. Also make sure that each spaceport city has a Military Academy or Seaport so you can get the space race boost from Integrated Space Cell.
• Set up the rest of your empire to support your late-game spaceport cities. Once you have enough science to get into the lategame, set up your governors wisely - I use Pingala in my main city, Magnus with Vertical Integration in my second city (and then make sure all surrounding cities have IZs with regional buildings), and someone else in my third science (Liang if it's a coastal city for Fisheries - also don't forget that the 20% Liang boost applies to building spaceports). Settle a city just to build Amundsen-Scott (chop in a campus, buy the buildings, use Eiffel or Shah Jahan and some other chopping to build the wonder). Load up on aluminum for Lagrange. Use your other cities to either run IZ or Campus projects to target good great people (Goodard is usually the priority for me) or create builders to use to boost your projects.

I play mostly on Emperor, and when going for science victory will typically end up winning in the 200-225 range (though did just have an Immortal win on 212 with England). I do tend to select city-states though, so if I were playing purely standard I would expect it to be longer. I've had a handful of sub-200 games (again on Emperor) but using power civs like Russia or Khmer or crocked settings (SS mode with Cree and abundant resources to get 30+ trade routes from my 28-citizen capital).

 

[Bibor]

Hello,

I have been playing civ6 for about three years now. First civ I have ever played. I play regularly on all standard in GS on prince. Meaning standard speed, continents, and no customizations whatsoever.

I do NOT understand how to get a science victory or any victory for that matter under 300. I am regularly around 325-350 I would say. I have searched forums, videos and everything for strategies on this and combined what I could but I still can't even come close, let alone on a deity difficulty.

I have seen many posts suggesting certain things like a second city by turn 20 and yet at the same time I believe the same post mentions going scout, slinger, warrior kinda thing. At that point I'd be at turn 30 or something before I even make a settler and settle. I don't know if I just suck at build orders or if maybe most of these people customize their maps to their advantage?

Any ideas to help me better at civ would be great!

The best I managed so far is Turn 217 science victory. Small map is the only difference between your setup and mine. I'm yet to find time for a writeup but here are some quick tips.

- Up the difficulty to King, because eras also depend on AI advances. You want to be hitting the industrial age as you start to build your first spaceport.

- You'll need to know the map. If you're up for it, try replaying the same map, using different strategies to lower your victory turn. You don't have to do this in the future, but doing it a few times will help your decision making on future random maps immensely.

- If you are playing with a faith civ, use it, otherwise don't bother with faith at all, too much turns go into setting up faith generators. Chop in or capture The Pyramids instead. Monumentality in medieval era is still great, because faster workers at this stage are really important (this is the point that you will rotate Magnus around for chopping in stuff like districts, wonders and universities).

- First half of the game should be focused on culture, the other half on science. You'll know if you're doing okay if you hit Industrialization at around T130 and Ideology taking 5-7 turns to discover. If Ideology takes 8 or more turns, you'll get a victory at around T 240.

- You need only 2 to 3 spaceport cities. Don't forget these cities can run out of power (lagrange lasers), so plan for coal accordingly.

- Every turn you spend on something other than direct effect on your space victory is a turn wasted. The biggest drain is excess districts and wonders. You really need only two: Oxford and Ruhr. Colosseum, Temple of Artemis immensely help population growth to size 15 in several cities, while Kilwa Kisiwani helps with science and culture. You'll outpace Amundsen-Scott, so don't bother. The Oracle is usually an overkill since you will be outpacing benefits of great scientsts *but* it might be really cool if you dedicate your main science city to growth & great people (districts), rather than production.

- Having 4 slingers, 2 warriors and 2 catapults will help you in the long term because you need 8 land units, 3 archers, 2 crossbows, 2 cannons, 3 muskets & 3 corps to trigger certain culture boosts. Incidentaly this also helps you conquer your continent and thus not need too many cities founded by youself.

 

[Peter Belanger]

I think wasted districts and units are something I need to do us in now that you mention that. I try to hit as many eurekas as I can so I tend to build districts or units for it, but perhaps I am far better off hard researching and not wasting the production and turns on getting a eureka to save a few.

That said, focus on culture early game is something I hardly do and perhaps that's an even bigger mistake. I try to build a monument in every single city first on my 3rd city and up. However, does that mean I should be putting theater districts down instead of campuses? Should I be pre-placing campuses but focusing on theater districts first kinda thing?

 

[The Highwayman]

The key to winning fast on Deity is rapid expansion. For a sub 200 science victory, which is my goal, I shoot for a minimum 16 cities, upwards of 20+. 2 cities are spaceport cities primed to chop the laser projects w/ Magnus and Pingala in each to colonize Mars in ~5 turns. Each city should have a campus with all the buildings and either a factory or solar farms powering them. by the time you launch the moon landing to give you the massive culture boost to hit Globalization to slot the International Space Agency card, you should be 1 turning techs (~2,000 spt).

Where to get mass late game science (~T150+):

• Powered research labs in every city except 2 spaceport cities that have only a spaceport and industrial zone each. The IZs allow the city to be fully powered after mass chopping the laser projects. Forget aluminum - you don't need it and it's not an obstacle to a science victory.
• Suze as many city states as possible. Suzing all CSs is possible saving up envoys and leveraging the Containment policy card to maximize the International Space Agency policy (+5% science per suze)
• Albert Einstein (+4 science in every research lab)
• Kilwa Kiswani - if you have 2 or more scientific CSs, this is +15% science across your empire. Chop this out by T100 or sooner. This will help your other economy as well depending on the CSs in game
• Amundsen/Scott wonder. Not necessary, but +20% science can help you hit the 1 tech per turn threshold. The +10% production is nice too
• Amenities. Underrated here, as you can get up to 20% boost to all yields including science. 2-3 well placed entertainment complexes with powered stadiums will help hit the +5 threshold. Make sure you trade for 1 copy of every luxury on the map.
• Run specialists in your campuses. People don't talk about this much, but harvest enough pop to where you can afford 3 pop to run campus specialists. That's +9 science in every city BEFORE amenities, wonders, Geneva suze, etc are taken into effect.
• Run campus projects in every city that's not building builders or any other critical piece.

Other tips:

• Plan your road infrastructure early-mid game. Build two military engineers mid game and have them lay railroads after teching Steam Power to move your builders around the map at lightning speed.
• Important wonders: Pyramids are tough on Deity, sometimes luck based, but the best. Colosseum boosts early mid game culture and should be prioritized. Kilwa boosts all economy and may be the most important wonder you can reliably get. Forbidden City is a good all purpose wonder with utility that cannot be screwed up. Oxford and Bolshoi are big for tech and civic jumping. Make sure you clean up cheaper techs and civics prior to the final chop. There are others that are situationally good, but most wonders are a time waste that keep you from expanding or chopping in districts and buildings.
• Get as many eurekas and inspirations as possible. Some are tough and not worth getting, others can be luck based like being declared upon. However, plan early and micro manage your techs/civics so you don't waste science and culture. Make sure you build units early for eventual eurekas like a 3 heavy chariots that turn into Knights to get Military science boost, then 3 tanks for another boost, then an army to contribute to another boost.
• Sell diplo favor. The RNG surrounding congress can be horrid. Guarantee a return on investment and rob the AI blind. Sell strategic resources and copies of luxes while you're at it.
• Culture is massive, prioritize the Colosseum wonder, a monument in every city, and strategically placed theater squares. Hitting the key governments and policies will speed up your science.
• Take Monumentality golden ages and forget the rest - the builder movement alone is worth it. Cheaper to purchase settlers and builders is a boon too. If you have a good faith economy, all the better.
• Don't waste time building garbage. A couple of centralized IZs are great for power and era score. An IZ in your spaceport cities will 100% guarantee power after chopping lasers. Don't go overboard since the IZ isn't a good district overall. 2-3 entertainment complexes that cover the empire will assist with amenities for the +20% science boost and the pro sports inspiration. Don't go overboard. Every city needs a monument and a campus. Other districts as they make sense such as Theater Squares near wonders and next to the aforementioned entertainment complexes. A few harbors for eurekas and trade routes, comm hubs for the same thing. Holy sites can be great for the religious science strategy. Russia, Ethiopia, Khmer, Japan are great examples of civs that flourish with this strategy.
• Aim for 10 cities by turn 100. Once you get that down, aim for 12, then 14, etc. The faster you get your cites down the sooner they return the investment and the cheaper the districts will be.

Magnus tour:

• Magnus should spend as little time as possible active in each city. Have an army of builders at the ready to harvest everything in as few turns as possible. Get the key wonder, chop the districts/buildings, get the pop up quickly so the city can stand on its own feet.
• Ancestral Hall is the best peaceful science victory gov building. If settling multiple cities within a few turns, consider moving all the builders to the magnus city to get 1 city online faster. This is one way to quickly create that "builder army". Then that city can help subsequent newbie cities. Move Magnus to the next city and have the builders follow him.
• The more efficient you are with Magnus, the faster your victory will be.

 

[KKirrin]

lots of good stuff above, so just some general tips:

Don’t hard build your space ports. Buy them with faith or gold via Reyna/moksha (ideal) or chop them in (not as great because you could be using those same chops for the projects but if it’s not a super fast win there’s usually a window where you could use some builders and the royal society instead). Skipping the hard build will shave 20+ turns, skipping then chopping all projects will remove another 20+

Put nan madol in your games and get suzerainty ASAP. Place all your districts on lakes or coast. won’t happen every game but it’s a good way to get your head around just how strong culture is early.

put your ancestral hall in a city with good chops and decent production. Have Magnus there while it’s building (I usually use the no pop loss promo) for the extra chop value, slot the 50% prod to settler policy and chop 3-5 settlers out in a couple turns depending on your previous expansion rate.

when considering whether or not to skip a eureka, compare the value of the science it offers versus your per turn rate. The lower your science, the more powerful they are and you really should be hitting as many as possible. Hard researching a tech that you could get a eureka for while you could be researching something else you need instead should be avoided

for pure science, as mentioned above you need Kilwa while suz of 2 science CS. Geneva alone is massively powerful when not at war, stacking the two is insanely strong. If you’ve got a bunch of science CS in game the first 3 points are extremely valuable, research station buff is okay, decent in slower games

Keep in mind that a bad tech tree will cost you at least 14 turns even at high science for most civs, often 30+ in slower games (best tree requires 58 techs, worst is 72 or 73 iirc).

hope that helps and best of luck!

 

[Bibor]

Don’t hard build your space ports.

I'm intrested in the math for this. Reyna is useless except for buying spaceports, and spaceports are really expensive. I find myself shaving off more turns by rush-buying factories, powerplants & research labs. Because I can also stagger these to focus on my most productive cities first.

 

[KKirrin]

Image quality is terrible (mobile shot) but that’s a 118 deity/standard/peaceful science victory on Peter attached

the problem is that the time spent building a spaceport is just too much of a bottleneck, and that setting up a huge faith economy makes buying them pretty easily doable if you go wide enough while peaceful (or warmongering and pillaging, or self-pillaging if you’re willing to go that far as your pillage amounts escalate with high science and start giving insane amounts of gold).

That and the game ends before stuff like labs or factories become relevant aside from what you need for eurekas, same deal for wonders like ruhr, production scales much better with chops (my wonders are almost always exclusively limited to coli/Kilwa/Oxford). Power plants you don’t need beyond eurekas either and you can get infinite power for free by running the project in your laser cities after you’ve chopped

That and high prod is actually worse in laser cities because the project will complete before you reach Mars and you’ll lose power, causing a loss of a turn or more sometimes

The only real trick to buying ports is knowing when to cut your expansion and switch to stockpiling faith or gold. It’s definitely way easier with faith imo though being able to buy other districts with Reyna can be useful after costs have escalated a bunch

Being able to slam a port in one turn then immediately chop out a full set of projects the very same turn they unlock is just too strong to ignore and being able to get 3 of them down in the span of 15 turns without using a chop is sorta required as you pull under ~140 or so I’d think

 

[GinandTonic]

Regarding the talk about boosts - decide if you will get a boost or not. There is no point in going out of your way to get five farms, two mines or one workshop or whatever. If boosts are on their way consider dumping research into something you definitely wont boost.

 

[Bibor]

I should probably point out that I’m not really a big fan of faith in this iteration of civ. Playing with faith really feels like cheating. The basic premise was always that gold served as the universal transferrable (yet inefficient) production resource. Slapping another one on top, one that’s completely off the charts in power is ridiculous.

 

[Horizons]

Hello,



I do NOT understand how to get a science victory or any victory for that matter under 300. I am regularly around 325-350 I would say. I have searched forums, videos and everything for strategies on this and combined what I could but I still can't even come close, let alone on a deity difficulty.

I see people here saying to spam cities close together and spam campuses - then I wonder how they have any production whatsoever in those cities to actually build anything.

I think it all comes down to rolling the right starting location, map and civ. Once a distant AI takes off in science there's nothing you can do about it.