Liltary
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2018
- Messages
- 6
Incorporate the old and good
Vassals giving their masters a token percent (10%) of science, culture, faith, gold, etc. is a good idea that can be maintained, but the benefit should be greater to encourage it over conquest where you get 100% of those yields, or slightly less with reduced population.
Idea: The benefits of HAVING a vassal
So I was thinking it'd be flavorful if every leader's ability was also a "vassal" ability, which would function like a suzerain bonus for a city state if you all-but-defeated them. These legendary immortal leaders are serving you now as "ultra-governors", so you get (a portion) of their bonuses!
Example of the mechanic
So you completely wipe out Scythia's armies. You have their capital surrounded. They face impending doom. In return for sparing their capital and palace, Tomyris offers to be your vassal. You then get her vassal bonus of "Killing an enemy unit heals your attacking unit 30 HP".
Note: Capital Requirement
For this to be reasonable, I think the vassal deal would have a default agreement of giving them their capital city back (or letting them keep it), which is often their most powerful and capable city. Getting a powerful bonus and letting them survive in a 1-pop city wouldn't be balanced.
Balance: Keep Players in the Game, weakened but not OUT
This would serve as incentive to keep players in the game. With the emergency mechanic being refined, it could also present an opportunity for vassals to come back with backstabbing, as they could participate, earn a pile of gold, and "throw a wrench" in their master's plans. After 10 turns, they have the option to rebel.
Liberation: an incentive to keep players in the game, or bring them back
Similarly to keeping players in the game, the incentive to bring back players into the game could also be added. When liberating a nation's capital, they will be your "vassal" out of gratitude for 20-turns as well as having positive modifiers if they are AI.
Flip-side: the benefits of BEING a vassal
Obviously you don't WANT to be a vassal since it helps the other player more, but as a vassal you will get shared vision with the empire you're serving. This is intended to better-assist you as you probe for weaknesses to eventually rebel. You see all their troops move to a foreign nation and their vulnerable? BACKSTAB.
Deterring Backstabbing
Aside from keeping troops nearby your vassal to ensure their loyalty, you could alternatively offer them gold per turn or other benefits that make it reasonably beneficial for them to remain your vassal state. Naturally: the better you treat your vassal, the less they will want to rebel.
Neighbors matter more than ever
Presently, we might go "Oh noooo, Montezuma is my neighbor" but with this mechanic that could very well turn into "Oh yessssss" since you may desire him as a vassal, especially if you get an ideal combination of complementary civs near you.
Examples of potential vassal abilities
Alexander: War weariness is reduced 80%.
Chadragupta: +4 combat and +1 movement in wars of territorial expansion.
Genghis Khan: Cavalry gain +3 combat strength.
Gitarja: Naval units can be purchased with faith.
Jayavarma: Holy sites on rivers provide +2 food and +2 housing
Luataro: Defeating units inside their borders removes 15 loyalty from the city.
Poundmaker: Trade routes +1 food in sending city and +2 gold per camp/pasture in receiving.
Robert the Bruce: +80% production and +1 movement for 10 turns for declaring war of liberation.
Seondeok: +8% science & +8% culture in cities with governors.
Shaka: +4 combat strength to corps and armies.
Tamar: +100% faith when declaring a protectorate war.
Willhelmina: Trade routes to/from foreign cities provide +2 culture for you.
Teddy Roosevelt: Troops on your home continent get +4 combat strength.
Saladin: Get 80% of Saladin's benefits from his worship buildings.
John Curtin: +80% production for 10 turns if you receive a declaration of war.
Montezuma: Each unique luxury resources in your lands provide +0.8 combat (rounded).
Pedro: 15% of the cost for great people is refunded.
Qin Shi Huang: Builders receive an additional charge.
Cleopatra: Your international trade routes get +4 gold. Routes to you get +3 gold.
Victoria: Gain a free melee unit whenever settling on a new continent.
Cathere de Medici: +1 diplomatic vision.
Frederick Barbarossa: Additional military policy slot.
Gorgo: Accrue 40% of defeated units strength in culture.
Pericles: Gain 4% culture for each suzerain/vassal.
Gadhi: Nations at war with you get double war-weariness.
Hojo Tokoyumi: Gain +4 combat strength on coasts or shallow waters.
Mvemba Nzinga: Gain an apostle when you build a theater square.
Harold Hardrada: +50% production for naval units.
Amanitore: +15% production on all districts.
Cyrus: +2 combat and +1 movement for 10 turns from declaring a surprise war.
Jadwiga: Holy Sites have increased adjacency bonus & +4 gold, +2 culture, +2 faith to relics.
Trajan: +2 movement on roads (needs to be changed for non-permanence).
Peter: +1 science and +2 culture for foreign trade routes.
Tomyris: Killing units heals your unit 30 hp.
Phillip II: +4 combat against civs with different religion.
Gilgamesh: When at war with common foe of an ally, share experience gains.
Vassals giving their masters a token percent (10%) of science, culture, faith, gold, etc. is a good idea that can be maintained, but the benefit should be greater to encourage it over conquest where you get 100% of those yields, or slightly less with reduced population.
Idea: The benefits of HAVING a vassal
So I was thinking it'd be flavorful if every leader's ability was also a "vassal" ability, which would function like a suzerain bonus for a city state if you all-but-defeated them. These legendary immortal leaders are serving you now as "ultra-governors", so you get (a portion) of their bonuses!
Example of the mechanic
So you completely wipe out Scythia's armies. You have their capital surrounded. They face impending doom. In return for sparing their capital and palace, Tomyris offers to be your vassal. You then get her vassal bonus of "Killing an enemy unit heals your attacking unit 30 HP".
Note: Capital Requirement
For this to be reasonable, I think the vassal deal would have a default agreement of giving them their capital city back (or letting them keep it), which is often their most powerful and capable city. Getting a powerful bonus and letting them survive in a 1-pop city wouldn't be balanced.
Balance: Keep Players in the Game, weakened but not OUT
This would serve as incentive to keep players in the game. With the emergency mechanic being refined, it could also present an opportunity for vassals to come back with backstabbing, as they could participate, earn a pile of gold, and "throw a wrench" in their master's plans. After 10 turns, they have the option to rebel.
Liberation: an incentive to keep players in the game, or bring them back
Similarly to keeping players in the game, the incentive to bring back players into the game could also be added. When liberating a nation's capital, they will be your "vassal" out of gratitude for 20-turns as well as having positive modifiers if they are AI.
Flip-side: the benefits of BEING a vassal
Obviously you don't WANT to be a vassal since it helps the other player more, but as a vassal you will get shared vision with the empire you're serving. This is intended to better-assist you as you probe for weaknesses to eventually rebel. You see all their troops move to a foreign nation and their vulnerable? BACKSTAB.
Deterring Backstabbing
Aside from keeping troops nearby your vassal to ensure their loyalty, you could alternatively offer them gold per turn or other benefits that make it reasonably beneficial for them to remain your vassal state. Naturally: the better you treat your vassal, the less they will want to rebel.
Neighbors matter more than ever
Presently, we might go "Oh noooo, Montezuma is my neighbor" but with this mechanic that could very well turn into "Oh yessssss" since you may desire him as a vassal, especially if you get an ideal combination of complementary civs near you.
Examples of potential vassal abilities
Alexander: War weariness is reduced 80%.
Chadragupta: +4 combat and +1 movement in wars of territorial expansion.
Genghis Khan: Cavalry gain +3 combat strength.
Gitarja: Naval units can be purchased with faith.
Jayavarma: Holy sites on rivers provide +2 food and +2 housing
Luataro: Defeating units inside their borders removes 15 loyalty from the city.
Poundmaker: Trade routes +1 food in sending city and +2 gold per camp/pasture in receiving.
Robert the Bruce: +80% production and +1 movement for 10 turns for declaring war of liberation.
Seondeok: +8% science & +8% culture in cities with governors.
Shaka: +4 combat strength to corps and armies.
Tamar: +100% faith when declaring a protectorate war.
Willhelmina: Trade routes to/from foreign cities provide +2 culture for you.
Teddy Roosevelt: Troops on your home continent get +4 combat strength.
Saladin: Get 80% of Saladin's benefits from his worship buildings.
John Curtin: +80% production for 10 turns if you receive a declaration of war.
Montezuma: Each unique luxury resources in your lands provide +0.8 combat (rounded).
Pedro: 15% of the cost for great people is refunded.
Qin Shi Huang: Builders receive an additional charge.
Cleopatra: Your international trade routes get +4 gold. Routes to you get +3 gold.
Victoria: Gain a free melee unit whenever settling on a new continent.
Cathere de Medici: +1 diplomatic vision.
Frederick Barbarossa: Additional military policy slot.
Gorgo: Accrue 40% of defeated units strength in culture.
Pericles: Gain 4% culture for each suzerain/vassal.
Gadhi: Nations at war with you get double war-weariness.
Hojo Tokoyumi: Gain +4 combat strength on coasts or shallow waters.
Mvemba Nzinga: Gain an apostle when you build a theater square.
Harold Hardrada: +50% production for naval units.
Amanitore: +15% production on all districts.
Cyrus: +2 combat and +1 movement for 10 turns from declaring a surprise war.
Jadwiga: Holy Sites have increased adjacency bonus & +4 gold, +2 culture, +2 faith to relics.
Trajan: +2 movement on roads (needs to be changed for non-permanence).
Peter: +1 science and +2 culture for foreign trade routes.
Tomyris: Killing units heals your unit 30 hp.
Phillip II: +4 combat against civs with different religion.
Gilgamesh: When at war with common foe of an ally, share experience gains.
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