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[NFP] Civ 6 World Wonder for Domination Victories Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Duke William of Normandy, Nov 15, 2020.

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  1. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    CT
    2 eliminations while I was AFK, huh? This is getting interesting.

    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (15)
    Big Ben (30)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (13)
    Forbidden City (31)
    Great Library (14)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (32)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (19)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (37)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Oxford University: By my estimation, this is better than Ruhr Valley for Domination. Science is an empire-wide yield, rather than city-specific, so sticking this in a city with great Science output (say, the one on the receiving end of your UoS trade routes) will do a lot more for you than just being able to produce 20-plus-however-many-Mines% more units in a given city. May help you close the gap that is quickly threatening to swallow you up if you manage to make it to the Industrial Era without winning - unlocking planes and nukes early is a big advantage, believe it or not.

    Estádio do Maracanã: Poor Estádio. This wonder, which might otherwise be the very best for Domination, is held back from its true potential by being the third-to-last unlocked in the entire game if you're progressing in techs and civics at the same rate. If you can build it, all your Amenity problems are pretty much solved for the rest of the game, but there is much virtue in that "if".
     
  2. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Gender:
    Male
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (15)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (13)
    Forbidden City (31)
    Great Library (14)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (32)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (37)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Big Ben (31) - If it were just a policy card slot wonder, this would still be arguably top-10 given the utility of economic policy slots. The 50% to the treasury is just a bonus on top.

    Oracle (16) - All you really need to kickstart your warmongering is a single classical GG, which you would probably be close to getting before you even built the Oracle. By the time you would need multiple GGs, you likely will have enough sources that Oracle will just help you win more. A useful wonder for every victory type, but not all that impactful for domination. I think it's either this or Great Library to go next.
     
  3. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    CT
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (12)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (13)
    Forbidden City (31)
    Great Library (14)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (33)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (37)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Kilwa Kisiwani: The strongest generalist wonder in the game, and laughably easy to build as well. Any city with a Coast tile can probably get it done.

    Apadana: This wonder is situational, a struggle to build in comparison, and as has been expanded upon at some length, the ability to produce more Envoys really isn't that great when you can eliminate them instead.

    Edit: Changed to reflect @Vargas1's vote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  4. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (12)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (10)
    Forbidden City (31)
    Great Library (14)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (34)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (37)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Estádio do Maracanã (10) (13-3) If I actually make it to Pro Sports, I should probably build/chop/buy more units to finish the job. Too late and too many required resources to have an impact on winning a dom game.

    Kilwa Kisiwani (34) (33+1) One of the best all purpose wonders. Subject to some rng, but there's almost always two CS's of the same type. And just like any other win con, domination needs those yields. Availability and easy requirements contribute to the high score.
     
  5. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
    Messages:
    179
    Gender:
    Male
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (12)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (10)
    Forbidden City (31)
    Great Library (11) (14-3)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (34)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (37)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Great Library: haven't been engaging in this thread thus far, so I might be treading on toes here. But I don't see any reason for GL to be remaining. It is a very competitive wonder, it requires a considerable investment to rush, and it comes at the exact time you should be initiating your domination snowball. To build it in a domination game strikes me as completely superfluous.

    Temple of Artemis (32) (31+1) The only early wonder I would think about rushing in a domination game (well, apart from Pyramids, but they're practically unobtainable at the moment). I've waxed lyrical in previous threads about how highly I rate ToA. It makes your city into a food, housing and, therefore, production powerhouse, on top of all the free amenities you gain. And it's also unlocked at Archery, which is 100% a tech you're going to beeline in domination.
     
  6. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Gender:
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    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (12)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (7) (10-3)
    Forbidden City (31)
    Great Library (11)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (34)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38) (37+1)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Estádio do Maracanã: As @Mr. Salt, this would be an AMAZING Domination Wonder if only it was earlier in the game. If you ar able to build this Wonder when going for a Domination Victory, you might have lost your chance on that front.

    Terracotta Army: Once again, free Promotions hurt nobody... Except for your enemies.
     
  7. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Warlord

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    Messages:
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    Gender:
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    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (12)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (8)
    Forbidden City (31)
    Great Library (8)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (34)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38) (37+1)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Estádio do Maracanã (8) - Yes, it comes late and costs a lot of production (and you need a stadium). But late in a domination game, getting +2 amenities for every city in your empire at that stage is worth saving a wonder GE or two or even founding a city just for this purpose (plan ahead a bit and stick a captured settler near a bunch of trees, put Reyna there to buy the EC, switch in Magnus, spend the establishing time buying the buildings and a builder, and get to chopping once you unlock the Estadio). Probably not a top-10 wonder for domination but I think more useful than at least a handful of those remaining.

    Great Library (8) - The bonuses themselves are reasonably useful for domination, but where this one loses out for me is in how difficult it is to get. The AI seems to really like this wonder, and in a domination game you're likely not going to beeline to unlock or build it.
     
  8. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Prince

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (12)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (8)
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Library (5)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (34)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38) (37+1)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Great Library (5) (8-3) Usually goes around T70 on Deity, right around when I'm making my first big push. The chops are probably better saved for many other wonders on the list.

    Forbidden City (32) (31+1) A great all purpose wonder that can buff what ever you choose. No need to stray from your path if you're doing land based combat as you're likely to go down the middle/bottom of the tech tree during your domination run. While conquering, it's likely you picked up some land containing tasty chops for a quick construction if you didn't have it already. Versatile, timely, easy to get. Great.
     
  9. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (9) (12-3)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (8)
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Library (5)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (35) (34+1)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Apadana: I'm not getting into the Estádio do Maracanã and Great Library debate, so I might as well downvote the Apadana. A situationally good Wonder that really only works if you can spare Production to build a few Wonders.

    Kilwa Kiswani: This, on the other hand, is one of the best general Wonders you can get. Synergizes well with Himiko and Hungary for an unstoppable Levied Army. Just a beautiful Wonder you must-have in every single Game you play.
     
  10. Ricard.Bossle

    Ricard.Bossle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    77
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (6) (9-3)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (29)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (9) (8+1)
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Library (5)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Apadana: Very situational to Domination Victories, really depending of the Civ your are playing to give you any benefit.

    Maracana: People are saying "It is AMAZING, but <insert randon rant>". Guys... If it is AMAZING, it should stay in the list. Period. We are voting AMAZING wonders to Domination Victories, after all. Kick it off the list when things like Apadana are long gone.
     
  11. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    CT
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (6)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (30)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (6)
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Library (5)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Casa de Contratación: Another joins the 30+ club. This wonder really helps to mitigate any problems you have with unproductive and disloyal colonies.

    Estádio do Maracanã:
    I want to be civil, but this reasoning is ridiculous. It's not amazing, as I made clear in the maybe 2 sentences of "randon rant" I put afterwards, because it comes too late. Most of the time, by the time you can build this wonder, you have won already. It's not hard to understand.
     
  12. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Warlord

    Joined:
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    194
    Gender:
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    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (6)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (30)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (7)
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Library (2)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Estádio do Maracanã (7) - This should at least outlast the GL/Apadana/Oracles of the world if we're looking at domination (if not a few others). Yes it comes late, but not every domination game ends before it would be worthwhile (especially if you're playing on a larger map). And if you are on a larger map, you're likely spread pretty thin, so +2 amenities is big. I'd rather rush/chop this in one city than build a half dozen entertainment complexes with buildings scattered around my empire.

    Great Library (2) - The difficulty in getting this puts it below Apadana and Oracle for me, though I think all three are around the same for domination.
     
  13. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Generally, Late-game Wonders are not the best for Domination considering that once you have started the snowball, there really is less use of getting Late-game Wonders than the earl ones, where you might need the bonuses more than anything else.

    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (6)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (30)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (7)
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Library (0) (2-3) (Eliminated)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (36) (35+1)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (16)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (35)

    Great Library: It is your time, Great Library. You have lived a long life. Now... It is time to burn you and all the priceless books inside! :p

    Kilwa Kiswani: Just hands-down the best Wonder in general. The Yields you can get from this Wonder are just beautiful.
     
  14. IsabelBraganca

    IsabelBraganca Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    Brazil
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (6)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (30)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (7)
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (36)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (13) More great people is not really important. On a domination game, you will get many anyway.
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (36) This wonder is really nice if you need to build naval units.
     
  15. greenOak

    greenOak Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    157
    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (6)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (31) (30+1) - Casa can potentially offer sizeable bonuses to many cities, and in a domination game it always does.
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (4) (7-3) - 2 amenities in every city sounds amazing for a large empire, but if you're playing domination are you actually getting to professional sports? Culture really isn't a big priority in domination.
    Forbidden City (32)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (36)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (13)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (36)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2021
  16. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (6)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (31)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (1)
    Forbidden City (33)

    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (36)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (13)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (38)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (36)

    Forbidden City: Easy-to-get wonder (easy rush tech, easy placement reqs, low AI build priority) with maybe the second best generalist bonus overall.

    Estádio do Maracanã: Nearly always comes too late to build.
     
  17. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (3) (6-3)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (31)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (1)
    Forbidden City (33)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (36)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (13)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (27)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (39) (38+1)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (36)

    Apadana: I'm downvoting this for two reasons. One: It is a situational Wonder, and can siphon Production away from building necessary Military Units. Two: I just want to get more drama and entertainment from watching if Apadana or Estádio do Maracanã go first, no shame involved. :p

    Terracotta Army: Free Promotions could really save Units about to die.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  18. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Warlord

    Joined:
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    Alhambra (35)
    Apadana (0) ELIMINATED
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (31)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (1)
    Forbidden City (33)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (36)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (13)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (28)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (39)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (36)

    Pyramids (28) - No matter what civ, map type, or victory condition, if you're first or second city has or is near a desert tile you're at least thinking about whether to rush Pyramids. That's how valuable it is to any game.

    Apadana (0) - A fun wonder for peaceful envoy-driven sim-city type games, but doesn't bring much to the table for domination.

    I've already made by feelings on Estadio known, so am not going to try to do a final save, but I will note that the notion that culture doesn't matter for domination is not at all my experience. You want strong culture to get you quickly to corps/armies, and from there to get to fascism to bring the game home (unless you're going for a pre-modern era domination victory, which is possible but not often the path taken). It's not too much further from there to get to the Estadio, and it's not like you're suddenly going to stop pushing your culture.
     
  19. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Alhambra (35)
    Big Ben (31)
    Casa de Contratación (31)
    Colosseum (31)
    Estádio do Maracanã (1)
    Forbidden City (33)
    Great Zimbabwe (20)
    Huey Teocalli (15)
    Jebel Barkal (29)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (36)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (24)
    Oracle (13)
    Oxford University (21)
    Potala Palace (21)
    Pyramids (28)
    Ruhr Valley (24)
    Statue of Zeus (24)
    Temple of Artemis (31)
    Terracotta Army (39)
    University of Sankore (21)
    Venetian Arsenal (36)

    Zeus - better than Apadana, Oracle and some already eliminates? A joke
    -3

    Ruhr Valley +1
    You beeline Indystrialisation anyway. Use it to boost flight, and use OP production to constructs aircraft
     
  20. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
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    Alhambra (35)
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    Estádio do Maracanã (0) (1-3) (Eliminated)
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    Terracotta Army (40) (39+1)
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    Estádio do Maracanã: Sorry, but you're just too late in the Civics Tree to be worth much. You got into a respectable place, though.

    Terracotta Army: One of the best Domination VIctory Wonders out there. The added Great General Points save you some additional Gold.
     
    Mr. Salt likes this.
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