[NFP] Civ 6 World Wonder for Domination Victories Elimination Thread

[Vargas1]

Alhambra (34)
Big Ben (20)
Casa de Contratación (21)
Colosseum (33)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (15)
Temple of Artemis (34)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (24)

Temple of Artemis (34) - Kickstarts your early game for any victory type and any early strategy. Want to build ancestral hall and spam settlers while replenishing your population? Want to work a bunch of production tiles and build another wonder, spam units in two turns each, or get a quick district? Want to build a variety of early districts in one city? Want to rush a holy site without losing the ability to build other districts? Want to stuff Pingala with promotions and boost your culture/science? Having an early growth city, with amenities to support, helps you along any of these paths. And it's not a ton of production and comes at a tech you're going to want to get to quickly anyway.

Venetian Arsenal (24) - A fun wonder, and on paper one of the tops for domination, but for the fact that the AI is incompetent in the water. While it can be fun to churn out frigates/battleships for coastal assaults late in the game, there really isn't a need to build up a big navy - it's more just fun for style.

 

[Mr. Salt]

Alhambra (34)
Big Ben (20)
Casa de Contratación (18)
Colosseum (33)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (15)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (24)

Temple of Artemis: Upvote to put it on the same level as Kilwa and the Forbidden City, which it certainly deserves.

Casa de Contratación: The Governor titles are a fine bonus, but its other bonus is somewhat weak and rarely comes into play. Its bonuses are good, certainly, but we're dealing with the best of the best at this stage, and the Casa doesn't have enough to cut it.

 

[Ferocitus]

Alhambra (34)
Big Ben (20)
Casa de Contratación (18)
Colosseum (33)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35 + 1 = 36) Can be a real juggernaut if you plan for it.
Statue of Zeus (15)
Temple of Artemis (35-3 = 32 ) Good if you can get it, but you have to be lucky.
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (24)

 

[pjotroos]

Alhambra (34)
Big Ben (20)
Casa de Contratación (15) [18-3] Casa is absolutely essential in the games where you're planning on your colonial cities being staple of your empire. It falls off if the colonies are just shifting frontlines and the governors jump from one to another all the time. The three extra titles are nice to have, but we're in the top 10 now, so nice-to-haves is not enough.
Colosseum (33)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (15)
Temple of Artemis (33) [32+1] If you have a camp resource in your capital - which I fairly often do - it's really not that much of a gamble. I always go for it if I can in any game where I play early conquest; it's an absolute game changer for growth.
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (24)

 

[Mr. Salt]

Alhambra (34)
Big Ben (20)
Casa de Contratación (15)
Colosseum (33)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (16)
Temple of Artemis (33)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Statue of Zeus: I've stated in exhaustive detail my reasons for upvoting this wonder in previous posts.

Venetian Arsenal: I upvoted the Venetian Arsenal once or twice, in simpler times, and it was even leading the pack in terms of votes for a long while. Sadly, this wonder's comparatively situational usefulness and the AI's uselessness on water puts it behind in comparison to phenomenally versatile wonders like Kilwa or the Forbidden City.

 

[greenOak]

Alhambra (34)
Big Ben (21) (20+1)
Casa de Contratación (15)
Colosseum (33)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (13) (16-3)
Temple of Artemis (33)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Big Ben (+1) - Probably better than Alhambra. Economic policy slots are just as important as military policy slots because they boost gold income which can be precious in domination games. The instant boost to your treasury also has some nice synergy with late game military pushes. You can mass purchase units, or mass upgrade an army with Big Ben's gold.

Statue of Zeus (-3) - IMO the weakest wonder left on this list by a long shot. With the exception of Venetian Arsenal and Statue of Zeus, every wonder left on this list is always good. In the games where Venetian Arsenal is actually good, it is way more powerful than Statue of Zeus could ever hope to be.

 

[Mr. Salt]

Alhambra (34)
Big Ben (18)
Casa de Contratación (15)
Colosseum (34)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (13)
Temple of Artemis (33)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Colosseum: The bonus Amenities, like those of the Temple, are invaluable to support early conquests.

Big Ben: The unfortunate reality is that this wonder is good, but it arrives in the Industrial Era, which makes it less relevant than the other two wonders (which also provide policy types more directly relevant to Domination Victory). The notion that it beats Alhambra is totally misguided: aside from the above, which is pretty much the deciding factor in Alhambra's favor, Alhambra boasts an Amenity bonus and GG points instead of GM points. 50% more Gold is the less relevant of the two bonuses by far, and relies on weirdly specific monitoring of your treasury for the entire time you build it lest you accidentally buy a Tank or something and the bonus becomes negligible. It's sort of a drop in the bucket anyway if you own half of the world's Commercial Hubs.

 

[CoconutTank]

Starting to make hard choices

Alhambra (35) (34 + 1) Every little bit of this wonder contributes to long-term conquest. A red slot, Great General points and amenities. Shows up fairly early on too, though the eureka for Castles is slightly awkward.

Casa de Contratación (12) (15 - 3) I like the 3 governor tiles and the pseudo-Colonial Taxes effect from Governors from CdC, but it's moreso a reward for conquest, rather than strengthening one's ability for conquest. TBH, if this effect is applying to non-home continent cities (and if one is prioritizing Cartography for some reason), then there's probably a large body of water separating the continents. And if that's the case, I would prioritize Venetian Arsenal over CdC.

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (18)
Casa de Contratación (12)
Colosseum (34)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (13)
Temple of Artemis (33)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

 

[Baigan]

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (15)
Casa de Contratación (12)
Colosseum (34)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (14)
Temple of Artemis (33)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Statue of Zeus (13+1): SoZ is only 400 Production, which means it can be rushed by any of the appropriate GEs in at most 2 turns. You could get a similar effect by gold-purchasing units, but that's going to be cripplingly expensive for most early/mid game situations. It's marginal, but this could be relevant in situations where you want to quickly open up a new front or reinforce against a surprise attack on unprotected cities.

Big Ben (18-3): The Economic slot is very nice. GM points are fine. The +50% treasury boost is a potential trap. Gold is only useful when it's spent. Unlike Science or Culture per turn, a larger treasury means nothing by itself. As @Mr. Salt notes, Big Ben comes later than the remaining wonders. So not only is it at a time where wonders become win-more, the treasury boost disincentivizes you from spending Gold that would otherwise be used to help you finish the game sooner. And if you've snowballed to the point where you don't need to purchase anything, you've already won. Big Ben has contributed nothing to your victory effort.

 

[Vargas1]

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (12)
Casa de Contratación (12)
Colosseum (34)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (14)
Temple of Artemis (34)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Temple of Artemis (34) - This, Kilwa, and Forbidden City are the only wonders that I more or less try to build every game, regardless of civ, map, or victory plan.

Big Ben (12) - I love a good policy slot wonder, but this one comes late enough that in a domination game you're not likely to use it for all that long. And in line with when it comes, I find that I'm better of spending money as I need to rather than saving it up for the big treasury boost.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (9) (12-3)
Casa de Contratación (12)
Colosseum (34)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (15) (14+1)
Temple of Artemis (34)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Big Ben: It's a good Wonder, don't get me wrong, but it's a Late-Game Wonder, which by then you might not even need the Policy Slot.

Statue of Zeus: As @Mr. Salt, @Baigan, and I have said before, the Statue of Zeus is bad if you don't take Corvee and Autocracy into account, and better when you do. It's cheaper to grind the Units, but with the Statue of Zeus, you can plan your wars more effectively because your Units come all at once instead of trickling into the War 5 turns apart.

 

[enKage]

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (9)
Casa de Contratación (12)
Colosseum (34)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (12)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Zeus -3
Still here? Wow.
Big Ben you usually build with great engineer, so you don't waste turns. Zeus must be hardbuild and if you even get great enginner on time, you would probably use it on Colloseum, FC or Kilwa.
I swear if it survives BigBen I would upvote it constantly until it wins the whole thread to prove how absurd this voting is.
Anyway.
Anti-cav, if you really want to use it in case of lacking resources, are quick to build anyway on domination games, because:
If you go conquest, it is huge probability of getting hammer boost onto military in congress and yoy probably have warlord throne. Add agoge. Add military alliance. You start spamming units, that are not so strong on battlefield, but unusually drain your cash.
Alternative is building it for science/culture benefis as Macedon / Gauls, but instead of Zeus build Alhambra for 100% naval card slot and build naval range units with 100% from naval + 20% from admiral + 20% from warlord throne +15% from alliance. And make sure they are cheaper by congress.
And yes, I keep 1 allance in domination game for selling luxuries meaning far over 50 gold per turn and +5 combat strength, which is too huge benefit to lose early on, followed by +15% unit production if my game last longer. They just die last.

ToA +1
Ths wonder is so crazy powerfull, pretty much often available and you rather build it yourself because AI often wastes its potential by byilding somewhere on the coast for +2 ammenity.

 

[Mr. Salt]

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (6)
Casa de Contratación (12)
Colosseum (34)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (13)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (21)

Moderator Action: Please provide reasons for your votes. Also, I cannot tell what you voted for as Statue of Zeus numbers are wrong if you upvoted it, should be 13? leif

Edit: thanks @leif erikson, total for Zeus should be correct now. I'll cite my above reasoning for upvoting Statue of Zeus (its unit discount is very strong and a good way to bypass Iron deficiency) and downvoting Big Ben (it comes too late for its bonus to be fully useful).

Big Ben you usually build with great engineer, so you don't waste turns

Ah yes, wasting turns, the biggest problem with Big Ben and definitely the thing I and others have criticized it for

huge probability of getting hammer boost onto military in congres

world congress lol

military alliance

alliances in domination games loooool

 

[Baigan]

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (6)
Casa de Contratación (12)
Colosseum (35)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (13)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (18)

Colosseum (34+1): It's good. And the 5-way tie makes me smile.
Venetian Arsenal (21-3): Its peak makes it better than the current bottom three, but it's not consistently strong enough to rank among the top group. Downvotes will be much more difficult to assign once this is eliminated.

As an aside, it's really not that difficult to find a ride-or-die military ally. Joining your would-be ally's war and prioritizing joint wars against civs they dislike goes a very long way toward keeping an aggressive civ friendly even while the grievances pile up. The additional +5 combat strength is often worth the effort. Don't expect to find a second ally after backstabbing the first, though.

 

[CoconutTank]

Venetian Arsenal (19) (18 + 1) Going to stick for Venetian Arsenal for one more place I guess. VA isn't super meaningful for general domination, but it's still fairly relevant for naval domination. Being able to double up on hard-built naval military units makes it take much less time to build up a naval force to wreck face with. As an additional bonus, the free naval military unit doesn't cost strategic resources. This is particularly great with Frigates, as it skips the high Niter cost, and Frigates have no strategic resource maintenance.

Casa de Contratación (9) (12 - 3) Casa de Contratación's most meaningful bonuses are the 3 gov titles. Great Merchants are nice to have, but not strictly necessary to fulfilling domination, and the gov bonuses don't directly help with domination either. If one had to be running a naval war campaign, I'd prioritize VA over CdC.

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (6)
Casa de Contratación (9)
Colosseum (35)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (13)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (19)

 

[greenOak]

Alhambra (35)
Big Ben (7) (6+1)
Casa de Contratación (9)
Colosseum (35)
Forbidden City (35)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (10) (13-3)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (19)

Same votes as last time. Same reasons. Big Ben on average is definitely better than Zeus and Venetian Arsenal, and probably better than Alhambra. It would be a travesty if it gets eliminated next. Yes its a late wonder, but the injection of gold is huge for spring-boarding into a late game push with tanks/bombers. Zeus just isn't good lol. I've mentioned a bunch of reasons why, but another one is because its located on the culture tree, and culture isn't prioritized in domination. Unlike peaceful games where early culture is important regardless of victory condition to help with rapid expansion, you generally prioritize gold, production, and science instead. How soon can you build this wonder anyway? Even if you have builders ready to chop the thing out, its often going to be close to T80. Then you have ten more turns before they reach enemy territory - right on queue to get gunned down by deity AI crossbows.

 

[Ferocitus]

Alhambra (32) (35-3) Too much competition for it.
Big Ben (7)
Casa de Contratación (9)
Colosseum (35)
Forbidden City (36) (35+1) Very handy when you need a slot for loyalty cards.
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (10)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (19)

 

[Mr. Salt]

F in the chat for the 5-way tie

Alhambra (32)
Big Ben (4)
Casa de Contratación (9)
Colosseum (35)
Forbidden City (36)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (10)
Temple of Artemis (35)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (19)

Statue of Zeus: Maybe someday, someone will disagree with why this wonder is actually good, instead of focusing on how bad the units it gives are. Until that day, I'll continue to upvote it.

Big Ben: The Economic policy slot continues to be the biggest reason to build this wonder, as (especially in GS where it's nerfed, and we are assuming the use of all DLC) the Gold bonus is usually pretty much insignificant. A better way to upgrade your army would be to slot Professional Army. Perhaps you could do this with an extra red policy slot you obtained somehow. But at any rate, it comes too late on the tree to make more of an impact than any of the remaining wonders. 10th place out of 50 is a pretty high-echelon placement.

 

[Francel]

Alhambra (32)
Big Ben (4)
Casa de Contratación (9)
Colosseum (35)
Forbidden City (36)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (11) (10+1) - Extra 50% production is a lot; by comparison, the great general Eisenhower gives 5% extra production and comes much later. Many of the most formidable enemy units will be cavalry class. You will simply be able to produce many more anti-cav units, and I think it's wrong to say anti-cav will never be useful.
Temple of Artemis (32) (35-3) - If you want to get the war machine going early, Artemis will delay you. Primarily benefits one city, so not as useful as colosseum, for example. It doesn't directly help with conquest in any way. It's benefits are felt over the course of the game, as opposed to being immediately impactful. I like this wonder a lot, but I think it's a bit too high right now.
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (19)

 

[Earl of Pembroke]

Alhambra (32)
Big Ben (4)
Casa de Contratación (6) (9-3) Because it must be built adjacent to the Government Plaza, it consumes the production in one of your better cities, production that would be put to better use by producing units. I always need bombards and crossbows at this point in the game because the AI targets them with city attacks.
Colosseum (35)
Forbidden City (36)
Kilwa Kisiwani (35)
Statue of Zeus (11)
Temple of Artemis (32)
Terracotta Army (44)
Venetian Arsenal (20) (19+1) especially for mass spamming of Privateers and Frigates. If you promote the ships strategically (i.e. one with loot and one with boarding) you get fleets with multiple upgrades with very little effort. This allows you to focus the bulk of your cities' production on land units.