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[NFP] Civ 6 World Wonder for Domination Victories Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Duke William of Normandy, Nov 15, 2020.

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  1. linaker

    linaker Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (9)
    Apadana (22)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (12)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (17)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5) (4 +1) Voting this down because Diplomatic Victory points aren't relevant is like voting down the Terracotta Army because archaeologists not needing open borders is no help in domination. The point is that you get 2 apostles or 2 religious beliefs which can net you extra faith, culture, science or gold or use them to convert enemy cities (3 golden age points), get extra units from barbarian islands with heathen conversion etc. If pursuing domination, you often are short on faith as you want to build campuses and encampments rather than holy sites, so this gets you apostles quicker (and cheaper) than purchasing them with faith and adds +4 faith per turn too. I admit it does depend on the circumstances, having a religion, not having lots of faith, having spare production, but let's have better reasons for voting it down.
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (10)
    Petra (18) (21 - 3) If 2 gold is equivalent to 1 culture (which it is) then this has just the same effect as St Basils on the target terrain. It's a lot cheaper, but it needs to be. The better the effect of Petra on a city, the harder it is to build it. Often I think that would be a great Petra city but then decide I don't want to waste an early settler on a city that would contribute virtually nothing until it had spent over 50 turns building Petra.
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (25)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    St. Basil's Cathedral (5)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Taj Mahal (11)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  2. greenOak

    greenOak Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (10) (9+1)
    Apadana (22)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (12)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (17)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (10)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (25)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    St. Basil's Cathedral (5)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Taj Mahal (8) (11-3)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)

    Angkor Wat (10) (9+1) - This wonder is not a top tier wonder by any stretch, but it doesn't deserve to be eliminated before a bunch of these remaining wonders which are actually useless. Yes its true sometimes this wonder does has the ability to actually harm your economy, but other times when you have an amenity cushion its worth a large amount of yields - especially in a domination game where you have a lot of cities. Note amenity cushion just means that your cities won't fall a happiness level upon finishing the wonder.

    Taj Mahal (8) (11-3) - This on the other hand is just throwing 920 hammers down the sewer. This wonder is not worth it in peaceful games, and its even worse when playing a warmongering style. Era score is trivial to obtain in a domination game.
     
  3. Baigan

    Baigan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (22)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (12)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (10)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (25)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    St. Basil's Cathedral (2)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Taj Mahal (8)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)

    Huey Teocalli (17 + 1): With most of the weaker wonders gone I want to pre-emptively upvote this before it gets attention. Amenity sources are helpful in domination games, but you shouldn't sleep on the +1F/+1P perk. It converts +2F/+1P/+1G tiles (from Lighthouse and Shipyard, which we're presumably constructing because Harbors >> Commercial Hubs) into +3F/+2P/+1G across your entire empire. For comparison, that's about the difference between a single Plains Farm (+2F/+1P) and unimproved Grassland Forest Furs (+3F/+1P/+1G). And unlike Petra or St. Basil's, we're already settling on lakes because of fresh water. The Amenities are the cherry on top.

    St. Basil's Cathedral (5 - 3): Downvoting because I agree that it should go before Mahabodhi Temple.
     
  4. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    536
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (22)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (12)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (7)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    St. Basil's Cathedral (2)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Taj Mahal (8)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)

    Pyramids (26) (25+1) The best wonder in the game for good reason - it helps all civs, all win cons including domination. You don't even have to build it most of the time since your neighbor likely spent the resources for you and the placement doesn't impact the empire wide effect.

    Panama Canal (7) (10-3) Far too late and situational to stick around much longer. Even if the stars align and one can build it, did it actually aid the world conquest?
     
  5. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
    2,991
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rouen, Normandy
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (22)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (12)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (8) IMO, I feel as if I was a bit too harsh on the Panama Canal. Sure, it's not the best Wonder, but compared to some Wonders (Taj Mahal) still on the list, it still has its uses.
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    St. Basil's Cathedral (0) (Eliminated) That's another Wonder crossed off the list.
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Taj Mahal (8)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  6. linaker

    linaker Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    70
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (22)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (13) (12 +1). I think this wonder is seriously underrated. Unlike Petra and St Basils, it improves some tiles like rainforest hills that are worth working anyway. To build Chichen Itza, there's no need to found a city with no growth and miniscule production. And unlike flat tundra or desert, flat rainforest tiles are improvable after Mercantilism. So in the renaissance, with a lumber mill, flat rainforest tiles yield 2F 4P 2C compared with Petra's 2F 1P 2G for flat desert. The game has changed. Chopping has been nerfed. Think of the planet and leave the rainforest alone, at least in one city.
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (5) (8-3) The USA has a Pacific and an Atlantic fleet and by the time this wonder comes along I usually have at least two navies. Even if there is a spot for this that can create a naval shortcut (and often there isn't), it's not very impactful. The best benefit is the extra gold and that isn't very significant at that stage in the game.
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (27)
    Taj Mahal (8)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  7. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,790
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (23)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (13)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (5)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (24)
    Taj Mahal (8)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)

    Statue of Zeus -3
    Maybe I don't see something, but it does not deserve to be so high now.
    I can see this is 400 hammers granting you units worth of 440 plus a little gold, but:
    - you can get those units earlier and cheaper in fact, because you have 50% card to units and only 15 to wonders. Not to mention better to have 4 warriors than 3spears
    - Zeus requires barracks, another 90 hammers, and this is not the very first building needed when going archer rush. What I need early in domination is encampment and projects, while other cities building units, no place for barracks yet
    - military training does not come so early even if you beeline for veterancy/raid card (not everyone can be Rome) and when you get it, squeeze barracks and chop Statue (in case you prefer to chop Statue rather than Colloseum), you already should have Xbows. If you need a wonder granting some obsolete units built somewhere far away from frontline, go for it.
    Other bonuses? +3 gold - big wow, doen't even pay for those 3 archers/spears
    +50% to anticav is sth intersting though, but useful only for Zulu and sometimes Sweden if you decide for domination playing as Kristina (because why not, she has so strong cards for domination...).
    it is OK as backup from salvaged production. But I would never go straight for it


    Apadana +1
    Last patches surprisnigly easy to build. Envoys to levy, envoys to break suzereins and so on
     
  8. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
    2,991
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rouen, Normandy
    Alhambra (30)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (23)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (13)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (6) I know I've downvoted this Wonder before, but honestly, I can still see so many other Wonders here that deserve to go before the Panama Canal.
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (24)
    Taj Mahal (5) When you're conquering Cities and getting Era Score from doing so, you don't need extra Era Score. Plus, you're just draining Production into this Wonder when you could be building extra Military Units.
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  9. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    Macro Land
    Alhambra (31) (30 + 1) Putting Alhambra up there with Terracotta Army makes sense. Red slot, Great General points and showing up earlier than the other slot wonders makes Alhambra great for domination.

    Taj Mahal (2) (5 - 3) Taj Mahal comes too late to be of much use by the time it is available, and war provides multiple means of repeatedly generating era score, lessening the need for TM.

    Flipping suzerainty of a city state from an opposing civ generates era score, as does levying a city state army. Both can be done repeatedly and are likely things one wants to be doing during war, though the former requires having enough envoys and the latter requires having enough gold.

    Eliminating an enemy unit with a unit of lower formation also always generates era score, which is particularly easy to do with air units.

    And ultimately, capturing a foreign capital grants 4 era score and eliminating a civ entirely grants 5 era score, which are both pretty big numbers and likely on one's way towards domination.

    Alhambra (31)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (23)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (13)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (6)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (24)
    Taj Mahal (2)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  10. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2020
    Messages:
    138
    Location:
    CT
    Alhambra (31)
    Angkor Wat (10)
    Apadana (23)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (13)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (6)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (25)
    Taj Mahal (-1) (Eliminated)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)

    Statue of Zeus: With the recent buff to anti-cavalry this one is more relevant than ever, as training these units is no longer... well, such a giant waste of your Production. It's still more useful for certain civilizations than others, but decidedly an advantage no matter who possesses it. The free army, I would argue, is a bonus supplementary to the main one, but that's not to say it can't be really useful.

    Taj Mahal: If you are worrying about Era Score in the late Renaissance Era during a Domination game, then you're really doing something wrong.
     
  11. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
    2,991
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rouen, Normandy
    Alhambra (31)
    Angkor Wat (7) It seems like from arguments from other members that Angkor Wat really isn't the best Wonder for Domination, so I'm sorry Angkor Wat, but you need to go now.
    Apadana (23)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (13)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (15)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (7) I also apologize to the Panama Canal, as thee are for worse Wonders than it, and it deserves a fighting chance. It at least has its uses for a Domination Victory.
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (25)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  12. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
    Messages:
    204
    Gender:
    Male
    Alhambra (31)
    Angkor Wat (7)
    Apadana (24)(23+1) Some of the best domination bonuses are tied up to city-states: 100% experience with Kabul, full damage against walls with Akkad, free great general/admiral points with Wolin, ridiculously cheap purchasing of units with Ngazargamu, and the powerful Nihang unit with Lahore. Rushing Apadana helps you maintain suzerainty of these city-states and fuels your domination.
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (13)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (12) (15-3) A solitary trade route? An expensive distraction at the time when you should be pumping out units.
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (7)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (25)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  13. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    402
    Alhambra (31)
    Angkor Wat (7)
    Apadana (24)
    Big Ben (27)
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (10) (13-3) from all the yield wonders, this one seems to give the least.
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (12)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (5)
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (8) (7+1) Haven't given up hope to find a map where this is useful.
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (25)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  14. greenOak

    greenOak Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Alhambra (31)
    Angkor Wat (7)
    Apadana (24)
    Big Ben (28) (27+1) - Economic policy slots are always nice, and gold is always useful in domination games. The 50% treasury increase can be useful for buying a bunch of units for a late game push.
    Casa de Contratación (25)
    Chichen Itza (10)
    Colosseum (27)
    Colossus (12)
    Estádio do Maracanã (25)
    Forbidden City (28)
    Great Library (23)
    Great Lighthouse (18)
    Great Zimbabwe (19)
    Hagia Sophia (13)
    Huey Teocalli (18)
    Jebel Barkal (27)
    Kilwa Kisiwani (28)
    Kotoku-in (20)
    Machu Picchu (21)
    Mahabodhi Temple (2) (5-3) - Don't see any situation in which I'd want diplo victory points or apostles in a domination game.
    Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (22)
    Oracle (21)
    Oxford University (18)
    Panama Canal (8)
    Petra (18)
    Potala Palace (22)
    Pyramids (26)
    Ruhr Valley (23)
    Statue of Zeus (25)
    Temple of Artemis (28)
    Terracotta Army (31)
    University of Sankore (18)
    Venetian Arsenal (32)
     
  15. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2014
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    Macro Land
    University of Sankore (19) (18 + 1) One of the few sources of science via wonder, and the science yield even scales (with number trade routes that can go to the UoS city).

    Mahabodhi Temple (-1) (2 - 3) Most civs that are playing for domination probably aren't focusing much on religion, so it's hard to see how Mahabodhi Temple fits into such plans. The Byzantines, the premiere example of a domination and religion combo civ, can get the ball rolling as soon as they get Crusade. And while it is good to complete the religion, the MT isn't really worth it for just doing that.

    Alhambra (31)
    Angkor Wat (7)
    Apadana (24)
    Big Ben (28)
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  16. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Prince

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    Venetian Arsenal (33) - Yes, the AI sucks at naval combat so you don't need an enormous navy to dominate the seas. But you're going to want at least a reasonable chunk of ships to attack coastal cities and protect land troops coming in. Once you build this anywhere in your empire, you can churn out all the naval units you need very quickly, freeing up a lot of production to put elsewhere.

    Hagia Sophia (10) - While I definitely think religion has its uses in a domination game (see note below), the ability to spread it more effectively is not one of the primary uses. An extra spread on apostles/missionaries is not an effective use of production.

    I got here too late to save Mahabodi, but a final note on it - as I've said before, I think it's a great wonder for when you want the benefits from religion but are not actively pursuing a religion game. By the time you want to build it (worth noting it is not prioritized by the AI at all), 400 production is not that much - you can either set it in a tertiary city and let it run, or chop it in a couple turns with Magnus somewhere. On the other hand, 800+ faith to buy the two apostles you'd need otherwise to fill out your beliefs is significant - in a domination game, that's the equivalent of two knights once you have Grand Master's Chapel, or faith purchasing a Classical-era Great General.

    You certainly don't need to fill out all beliefs in a domination game, but it absolutely can be useful. For one example, it is not hard to maintain your religion in your own cities once you start an inquisition and buy inquisitors. In a domination game, you're going to take a lot of cities. If you take one of the beliefs that gives science/culture/gold for each city following your religion, and convert all the cities you capture, that's a pretty significant boost to yields throughout the game. Or you can take the belief that allows religious units to ignore terrain, and use a missionary or two as super-scouts in advance of your army. And for worship buildings - which are probably the least useful belief for domination - you can take stupas, which can help relieve late-game amenity pressure (especially since, once you head towards the late-game, you probably have enough faith coming in to just buy them in your biggest cities).

    I will say that, strangely, I find it a not very useful wonder in a game I'm actually focusing on religion. In a religious game, you're going to end up buying apostles anyway to fight/spread, so I find it's better to just wait until you get ones with crappy promotions and use those to fill out your beliefs.
     
  17. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

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  18. Mr. Salt

    Mr. Salt Warlord

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    Kotoku-in: Warrior Monks are a very strong unit to have in the time that this Wonder can potentially become available. It's an investment in Culture to make it to Divine Right from Theology, sure, but Swordsmen with 15 additional Combat Strength, 1 extra movement, and invisibility? Sign me up. What was this one doing below the Oracle?

    Chichen Itza: Rainforests are worth more chopped than they are boosted by Chichen Itza.
     
  19. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Venetian Arsenal (34) Essentially +200% Production towards Naval Units since you get a free Naval Unit afterward, and that's good if you're playing as England or Norway.
     
  20. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

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    Angkor Wat killed! -3
    This wonder is so weak, that it is impossible survived so long! Among 3 worst wonders in the game overall, Needs rework

    Great Zimbabwe +1
    This wonder is insane in terms of gold generation, when you have noone to send traders to, because you're at war with everyone
     
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