Civ 7 7otM4 Announcement

[Eyswein]

Welcome to Civ VII Game of the Month - 04

These games will allow new and old GotM fans to play Civ7 in a friendly competitive environment. Participants are encouraged to post questions, stories, advice, tricks and failures in the dedicated game threads (described below). Each game will specify the Civ you will play.

How to Play

1. Please read our Must Read Rules and Game Details sections below for important information before playing.
2. Consult our Other Useful Information section below and ask spoiler free questions in this thread before starting your game if needed.
3. Click the 7otMxxx.Civ7save file attachment at the bottom of this post to download the Civ6 savefile.
4. Move the Civ7 savefile from your ...\Downloads folder to your ...\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization VIi\Saves\Single folder. (This is the standard Civ67install location so please let us know if yours is different or you can't find it)
5. Load the 7otMxxx.Civ7save file in Civ7 and play the game adhering to all our Rules and Victory Conditions specified below. (In game, click Single Player, Load Game, 7otMxxx should be at the top.)
6. Once finished, report your results in the appropriate thread and attach your finished save game to your post in the final thread.

Must Read Rules!

We would like to ask you to please abide by our most sacred rule: Do NOT replay any turns! If you make a mistake, accept it and try to recover. To ensure fair play and prevent results exclusions, please set your Autosaves to 1 turn. In the event of a computer crash while playing, just reload to the previous save and play it as closely to how you played it the first time.
We also ask that you only use UI mods and not any game changing mods.

Game Details

Goal for Civ7 GOTM04: Lowest score using the follow -- 100 x Total turns in All Ages / Total Legacy Points in All Ages.
Civ7 GOTM04 Final Score Example: Across all 3 ages you take 250 turns and total 30 Legacy Points, score would be 100*250/30=833. Across all 3 ages you take 208 turns and 25 total Legacy Points score would be 100*208/25=832 (winner for lowest score).
Civ7 Scoring: In most previous Civ games, fewest turns has been a good measure; trying to determine if we should do a combo of score and legacy points or not; looking for feedback if this new method is a good measure of success or if we need to change it to something different. Poll posted.

Victory Condition: Culture (in Modern Age) (all VCs are enabled)
Player (You): Hatshepsut - Egpyt (Antiquity Age)
Player (You): Abbasid (Exploration Age) - please chose this Civilization for Exploration Age; specific civs may or may not be required for Civ 7 GOTMs
Player (You): Any (Modern Age) - please chose this Civilization for Modern Age; specific civs may or may not be required for Civ 7 GOTMs
Mementos: Shakokidogu, Imago Mundi (may require foundation L7, but current testing shows it does not; please do not change mementos throughout the Ages for this game)
Mementos bonuses: +1 culture attribute point; +2 sight instead of +1 for scout search and lookout ability
Starting Age: Antiquity
Difficulty: Sovereign
Game speed: Standard
Map Type/Size: Continents Plus / Standard Size
Age Length: Standard
Civs (including player): 8 Civs
Crisis: Yes
Disaster Intensity: Light
Game Seed: xxx
Map Seed: 888752892

Game Options:
Start: Ancient Era
Enabled: Independent Powers
Game Version: This game was created in Civ7 version 1.1.1 Patch 1 as of 29 March 2025
Game Requirements: Civ7 vanilla patched

Starting Position


Other Useful Information
Unique Attributes:

Spoiler Unique Attributes :

Leader: Hatshepsut

Leader bonus:

• Leader Ability: Keju: Increased Growth Rate in Cities. Increased Science from Specialists.
• Leader Attributes: Cultural & Economic
• Starting Biases: Navigable Rivers, Desert
• Unlocks:

Thread information:

Spoiler Thread information :

Announcement thread (this one): This thread is used to announce the game and clarify the settings and rules (don't be afraid to ask questions). It's also used to discuss the game before you start, and post problems with opening the save. Once you have opened the save, DO NOT POST game-related information in the Announcement thread.

Internal staff coordination - @leif erikson @Blake00 @The_J @Knowtalent

Game Length:

This game ends 15 May 2025.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

I havn't played Hatchepsut or Egypt yet so that will be a discovery

A small error. Hatchepsut's LA is God's Wife of Amun : +1 for every imported resource, +15% towards buildings and wonders in cities adjacent to a navigable river.

BTW, how does that "adjacent" thing (which comes into play for several leader/civ abilities) work? Is a settlement adjacent to a river when one of it's quarters is adjacent or only when the CS is adjacent?

 

[ABigCivFan]

Can we possibly post different starting saves for GOTMs at different difficulties? Same leader, same rules, but 3 different saves (one save for Sovereign, one save for Immortal, and one for Deity). And players can choose whichever difficuty that they want to play.

 

[DaddishGambino]

Can you see your total turns at end of the game, or do you have to keep track during each age? I finished gotm3 (my first immortal win!) but didn't know my final turn count.
Besides that, I like this scoring formula.

 

[RocknOats]

Interesting... I love algorithmic solutions to scoring problems!

 

[ABigCivFan]

I think the issue with this scroing system is counting the legacy points in the Modern age. Since the victory type was Cultural, one would not waste time to get legacy points for other types, however, if someone will take the time and use more turns to milk all the legacy points for all types, they will get a better score than the player only focuing on the fastest cultural finish.
I think a better score system can be: 100 * (Total turns in Ant and Exp ages/Total legacy points in Ant and Exp ages) + Total turns in Modern age

Also requesting the host to post a Deity save for the next GOTM. Thanks.

 

[Manpanzee]

For Modern age at least, these settings do basically boil down to "get all legacy points in minimum time". The specific victory condition only matters insofar as you want to get ahead on that one, to give time for the extra final project.

I don't necessarily mind this, as if you understand the assignment and work to sync everything up, it shouldn't amount to too much waiting. Anyone who thinks that the goal is actually "culture victory" is going to be left in the dust, though.

 

[ABigCivFan]

If I am going for a Cultural vic in modern, I dont need to waste 2-3 hours to take over 10 crappy AI cities to get all the Military legacy points, but I will for sure have lower score than someone who does that using the current scoring system. Which takes some fun out of it.

 

[Huginn]

I think one issue with any turn time scoring system incorporating legacy path points is that they, arguably, are already factored in, since they already progress the age, thus, lowering the age turn timer. They also provide advantages for the next age. In principle, I would argue that a player who did not achieve as many legacy points over the whole game as another player but who did finish with fewer turns total (i.e., one could argue he or she did not need as many legacy points for success) played more efficiently and should be ranked higher. The issue, however, is that there are only very few ways to lower the turn timer per age limiting variety of strategies:

The age progress pool is 200 at the start of each age, which progresses by 1 each turn, so the theoretical maximum turn time per age would be 200.

The only way to reduce it further are (for Antiquity):

-20 (turns) for each first-time completed legacy path (-5, -5, -10 for each respective milestone)

-10 (turns) for each future civic and future tech

-25 (turns) for each eliminated civ

Thus, the theoretical minimum turns (assuming no civ elimination or future civic/tech researched) in Antiquity are 200-20*4=120 turns.

If two players did not achieve all legacy paths, their turn timers might differ because, say the distant land civ (to use an example truly out of their control), might have achieved a legacy milestone in one player’s game but not the other’s, which, however, in this hypothetical example would not reflect their respective success. Also, atm the AI seems quite incapable for the most part pursuing legacy paths on their own.

I am not sure what the right metric would be for Civ 7 GotM considering the way ages are designed. Ignoring turn timer or just measuring Modern turn timer would simply shift the problem in the opposite direction of extending the age artificially as long as possible.

 

[torsteinvh]

I think a better score system can be: 100 * (Total turns in Ant and Exp ages/Total legacy points in Ant and Exp ages) + Total turns in Modern age

I agree with this. If I'm going for a Economic win, preparations starts in the Exploration age by looking for factory resources and so on. If I'm going for Military, I choose AC promotions that's suited for attack.

But with this GOTM, going for culture, I'm not bothering with factory resources at all, and military is primarily for defence and deterrence. I go all out maximizing tech and civics to get those explorers to the right places ASAP. But with the current scoring system I'm punished for not getting economic and military legacy points in the modern age. So when the victory condition is clearly defined, the scoring system should support that

 

[Ballcrusher]

I think one issue with any turn time scoring system incorporating legacy path points is that they, arguably, are already factored in, since they already progress the age, thus, lowering the age turn timer.

Agree with this. I understand that the admins are curious about testing different scoring mechanisms for the new Civ game. But so far the games has been more frustrating and less fun for me, when you have to focus on legacy paths. My opinion so far is that it is more fun, more flexible and more simple to just use total turns in all ages as final score

 

[Eyswein]

Can you see your total turns at end of the game, or do you have to keep track during each age? I finished gotm3 (my first immortal win!) but didn't know my final turn count.
Besides that, I like this scoring formula.

The only way I've seen is to keep track in each age. The game doesn't seem to combine ages in any way.

 

[GoblinMatron]

Hi!
This is my first game of the month and I finished the Antiquity Age. A few days back, I saw a thread about that age for GotM4. Now I can't find that thread anynore.

Where did it go?

 

[leif erikson]

The site was compromised by a moderator account.
We are looking for missing threads.

 

[leif erikson]

Hi!
This is my first game of the month and I finished the Antiquity Age. A few days back, I saw a thread about that age for GotM4. Now I can't find that thread anynore.

Where did it go?

I have reestablished the thread as best as I could.

 

[MACKA0ili]

Do you think it'd be best to try to finish this before the next patch or to just do it later this month?

 

[wenamon]

I am overanalyzing the starting image again. I know I don't want to settle in place to avoid having too many water tiles in my first circle around palace. But, I am split between moving to the forest to the W vs the desert river to the NW. The forest gives me less water tiles overall from the coast, so I guess that is an advantage for a city I expect to run out of space in with wonder production.

Ideas from others who have yet to play?

 

[Lord Yanaek]

If I am going for a Cultural vic in modern, I dont need to waste 2-3 hours to take over 10 crappy AI cities to get all the Military legacy points, but I will for sure have lower score than someone who does that using the current scoring system. Which takes some fun out of it.

And you don't have to, even if legacy points are factored in the math for final score. There are only 12 legacy points you can get each age. A single point won't make that much of a difference if you have to spend like 20-30 turns to achieve. The system already favors turns simply by the fact that there are far more turns than legacy points, so they have a larger impact on the score. The only time when you might want to delay your victory is if you're about to get another legacy point in the next 5-10 turns maybe.

Agree with this. I understand that the admins are curious about testing different scoring mechanisms for the new Civ game. But so far the games has been more frustrating and less fun for me, when you have to focus on legacy paths. My opinion so far is that it is more fun, more flexible and more simple to just use total turns in all ages as final score

And the games have been less fun to me when i don't even get a chance to play the modern age. When "fewest turns" is the victory condition, the game is mostly over at the end of exploration.This is even more true for Culture than any other victory but every victory (except probably military) allows you to ignore most of the mechanics of the modern age. The most fun game i played so far was when i tried to get as many legacy points in the modern age for achievement purposes. At least i got to play with my modern age civ, use it's unique abilities and interact with modern age mechanisms in that game.
I guess we can't all have what we prefer, since different players have different preferences, which is why i've been suggesting alternating victory conditions, so at least we all can all play our favorite games every 2-3 games.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

I am overanalyzing the starting image again. I know I don't want to settle in place to avoid having too many water tiles in my first circle around palace. But, I am split between moving to the forest to the W vs the desert river to the NW. The forest gives me less water tiles overall from the coast, so I guess that is an advantage for a city I expect to run out of space in with wonder production.

Ideas from others who have yet to play?

I had a weird reasoning for settling on the NW desert. As Egypt i plan on building Pyramids which give + on rivers and as Abassid (in the exploration) i'll want to maximize the number of urban districts adjacent to the city center (for the adjacency tradition). With NW desert i have only 2 river tiles adjacent to the City Center (where 'ill place quarters and thus loose the Pyramids bonus) while the forest has 4, so i settled the desert (completely overlooking the fact that i was settling ON a river so it was 3 vs 4 rather than 2 vs 4).
Maybe not worth it as it moved me 1-tile further from the sheep but i hate loosing on my of civ uniques

 

[pmarc]

And you don't have to, even if legacy points are factored in the math for final score. There are only 12 legacy points you can get each age. A single point won't make that much of a difference if you have to spend like 20-30 turns to achieve. The system already favors turns simply by the fact that there are far more turns than legacy points, so they have a larger impact on the score. The only time when you might want to delay your victory is if you're about to get another legacy point in the next 5-10 turns maybe.

A bit late to this discussion, but wanted to note that the exact balance can be figured out with calculus. If the score is t / p (# of turns / # of legacy points), then the marginal effect of one less turn is -1/p, and the marginal effect of 1 more legacy point is - t / p^2, so each legacy point is worth (t / p) turns. E.g., if you're finishing at around 240 total turns with 30 legacy points, 1 more point is worth it if it takes less than 8 extra turns.