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Civ by the numbers

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by dalamb, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    This note summarizes strategy articles with specific numbers, so that geeks like me can do their own calculations in their own games. A few numbers are simple enough to list here with little explanation; others require reading more extensive articles. I don't (yet) read .xml and python files, so I can't verify any of this on my own. I'd greatly appreciate feedback and updates, and will update this first post accordingly. In particular I have only found a few numbers related to scaling for map size. :hmm: shows places where I don't yet know some information; some of it may be in other sources I cite.

    A few specific numbers, mostly from the middle of various threads:
    • Experience points for military units for a non-charismatic leader: Level 1 is 0 points; thereafter each level N takes a total of (N-1)^2+1 points; thus for level 4 (to unlock the Heroic Epic) you need 3^2+1 = 10 XP. Alternatively, to go from level N to level N+1 takes N+1 XP (2, 5, 10, 17, 26, 37, 50, ...). Numbers for Charismatic leaders are 3/4 of these, rounded up (2, 4, 8, 13, 20, 28, 38, ...)
    • Cottage growth speed 10t for 1st step (to hamlet), doubling at each further step (20, 40, ...). Multiply by the usual game speed factors. Emancipation halves these numbers.
    • Culture required for a city to reach "Legendary" status (doubled with "no espionage" option).
      25,000 - Quick (1/2 instead of the normal 2/3)
      50,000 - Normal
      75,000 - Epic
      150,000 - Marathon
    • Decay rate for paused production. Pre-3.19, there was no scaling for speed; the AIs were not subject to it. In 3.19 there is scaling. :hmm:
      Building: 50t, 99%
      Unit: 10t, 98%
    • Game speed scaling: many specific numbers scale with game speed, usually by 0.67 for Quick, 1.5 for Epic, and 3 for Marathon. This applies to:
    • Map size effects. Larger sizes increase most of these numbers, except city maintenance:
      • Number of opponents: Duel: 1; Tiny: 2; Small: 4; Standard: 6; Large: 8; Huge: 10.
      • Number of prerequisite buildings to build a special building:
        • Number of temples required to build a cathedral, monuments to build Statue of Zeus: Duel: 2; Tiny: 2; Small: 2; Standard: 3; Large: 3; Huge: 4.
        • Number of theatres to build Globe Theatre, universities to build Oxford University, banks to build Wall Street: Duel: 4; Tiny: 4; Small: 5; Standard: 6; Large: 7; Huge: 8.
      • Distance and city size components of maintenance costs (decrease on larger maps). :hmm:
      • Costs to research technologies. :hmm:
      • Number of cities, buildings, or units required for events and quests (BtS). Numbers vary by the specific event. Some prerequisites and quest results are proportional to default number of players (opponents+1) for the map type.
    The primary source for explanations of game mechanics is in the War Academy:
    Non-Academy articles or posts with many numbers, or numbers amid longer explanations:
     
  2. shyuhe

    shyuhe Chieftain

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    Free speech does not double cottage growth rate. Only emancipation does.
     
  3. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Thanks! That's what I get from quoting a post that got corrected later in the thread.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    You might want to scroll up slightly, check your breakdown for legendary culture per speed, and rethink how you represent this one ;).
     
  5. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Added: Number of temples required to build a cathedral: Tiny: 2; Small: ??; Standard: 3; Huge: 4.

    Can someone tell me the number for small maps?
     
  6. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    I think it's 2, and you forgot Large where I think it is 3.
     
  7. Bostock

    Bostock Chieftain

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    I believe decay actually does scale with game speed.
     
  8. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    :confused: At present I'm relying on forthright comments in various threads for these numbers (that is, posts where people phrased things as though they were sure of the numbers); I've tried to remember to link to the posts in question. I guess, eventually, to be certain, I need to learn to read .xml files or use the worldbuilder a bunch to verify things. For now I think I have to stick with comments where people didn't say "I guess" -- which might mean I'm biased towards people who are excessively confident! :D
     
  9. Kesshi

    Kesshi Chieftain

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    Here's a few more to add if you wish:


    You may want to add in how game speed affects huts when they produce gold. I'm not sure if the numbers are exact, but I believe that huts give you game-speed times gold. That is, 3x on marathon, 1.5x for epic, and 0.67x for quick.

    Map size also affects the following:

    How many sub-buildings* are required to build National Wonders. (How many Banks to build Wall Street, how many Universities required to build Oxford, etc.) On the same coin the Statue of Zeus requires a set amount of Monuments based on the map size before you can start construction.

    *Sorry for the hokey name. If you can think of a better name, by all means use it!

    Tech costs. Larger maps have bigger tech requirements than their smaller counterparts. I'm sorry, I don't have the numbers handy. :(

    City Maintenance. On a Large Map you will pay less for city maintenance for both distance and number of cities than on a small map.
     
  10. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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    Only since last patch :)
     
  11. Bostock

    Bostock Chieftain

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    Doesn't map size also affect Quest requirements?

    I believe :) it also affects the number of cities that get :) from Representation.

    It definitely affects how many units/turn you can draft.
     
  12. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    I've included a bunch of :hmm: to show where I'm missing some numbers. Kesshi's comment on maintenance costs and Bostock's on Quest requirement reminded me I've seen longer articles or threads that have some of those numbers, so I'll go about digging them up over the next few days.
     
  13. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    Researched some map size numbers via WorldBuilder: # opponents, #buildings as prerequisites for wonders or cathedrals. Interestingly, #temples per cathedral equals #monuments for the Statue of Zeus, and #banks for Wall Street equals #universities for Oxford.
     
  14. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    Spread culture, optimal city growth (farms vs cottages), city and distance maintenance
     
  15. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    @vicawoo: Sorry, I can't figure out what you mean. Are there specific numbers associated with these that you want to add to the first post?
     
  16. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    They have major posts detailing the mechanics, a la arathorn's combat explained
     
  17. henrebotha

    henrebotha proud Fender owner

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    I thought experience required to reach level n is n^2+1. That means that the totals required for a non-charismatic leader are, in order:

    5
    10
    17
    26
    37
    50
     
  18. Clam Spammer

    Clam Spammer Chieftain

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    Units start at level 1 (with no earned promotions), so it's really (n-1)^2 + 1. Which, if you expand it out, is the same as the formula in the OP.

    That said, I have spotted an error in the OP:

    The linked post wasn't clear on this, but GPT from settling Merchants isn't affected by game speed. You get the same GPT for 3 times as many turns (on Marathon), which balances out the 3x profit from trade missions. The post also mentions getting 18GPT with the gold multiplier buildings, which seems to confuse this further.

    I haven't actually played Marathon speed to confirm this, but I'd be very surprised if settled Merchants gave more GPT without the other GP types being affected in a similar way.
     
  19. Amao

    Amao Chieftain

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    There is no dual map numbers?
     
  20. dalamb

    dalamb Chieftain

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    @Clam Spammer: It'll be easy enough to worldbuild some test cases for merchants; I feel odd about correcting that posting, but maybe I should post the actual numbers there, too.

    Also, the (N-1)^2+1 formula is easier to understand, so I switched.

    @Amao: Not yet, but when I get into the worldbuilder again I'll check. Today is for stuff that's more fun.
     

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