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Civ Design Challenge III - Alternate History

Discussion in 'Civilization Design Resources' started by NiaoMeow, Oct 13, 2015.

  1. NiaoMeow

    NiaoMeow Ximicacan? XIMICACAN?

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    I've been thinking about making another design challenge for a while, and I think I hit gold with an idea:

    Alternate History civs​




    What if the Spanish were not able to defeat the Aztecs or the Incas?

    What if the Confederate States had won the war?

    What if the Persians had successfully invaded and held Greece?

    What if the Qing Dynasty had won the Opium wars?


    These are the sort of scenarios that would be baselines for civs to be made. For prompt #1, one might write a short explanation (1-3 paraghraphs) about what happened in their timeline, then design a civ based upon the Incas in the year 1800. The civ must include the following aspects:

    Spoiler :
    Name of Nation/Kingdom/Tribe etc.

    Capital

    Year the design represents

    UA (name)

    UU/UB/UIs (names)



    Challenge #1 winner: Scapegrace's Alandalasuyu
     
  2. Uighur_Caesar

    Uighur_Caesar Comandante en Jefe

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    I think this is a really cool idea for a design challenge. However, I think it could benefit from a more specific alt-history. In this current state, we have to BS all the history, which can be difficult. As a result, we also have to BS all of the uniques that the civ has too. I think it would be better if we were given a better, more specific alt-history narrative to help with the design. Obviously, the main part of this challenge is creating that narrative, but at least for me it would be better if we were given something more than just "Inca in the 1800s."
     
  3. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    Color me interested too. I was thinking on working off established works of alternate history already, but Uighur_Caesar raises a good point, we may end up spending more work on creative writing than actually designing the civ.
     
  4. SULOMON

    SULOMON Mod Civs Best Civs.

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    We wouldn't have to make up as much stuff if the timeline wasn't so far ahead. Say Inca in the 50 years following resisting the Spanish instead of 400.
     
  5. NiaoMeow

    NiaoMeow Ximicacan? XIMICACAN?

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    Spoiler :
    As Spanish explorers invaded from the north, your people retreated even deeper into the mountains. But when the Spanish funds began to run out, the colony of Brazil quickly absorbed some of the Spanish territory. From hundreds of years of peace and trade, Great cities have risen along the Andes under your control. Incan roads have linked Rio De Janeiro to Cusco, and the weapons, goods, and diseases of Europe have traveled by the great roads of the Inca people. As rebellions and revolutions start in the American colonies of Europe, your people see opportunity.

    Great Ekkekko, the year is 1750. As the enlightenment era is in full swing in Europe, your people have began to truly prosper after hundreds of years of starvation and disease. Will you lead your people to an empire of trade and diplomacy with the new nations of Latin America? Or do your people yearn for blood and expansion yet again? How will you respond to increased military might of the Spaniards and Portuguese? Will you build a civilization that can stand the test of time?



    Some things to consider and think about:

    Are the Incan people, your vassals and your tributaries united?

    What religion do your people follow?

    Do you have a navy? Is your empire landlocked?

    Has your territory receded?

    What is your government like?

    Is your empire still very traditional? Or has it become more westernized?

    How do your people view the Spanish, Portuguese and the Brazilians?

    Mountains are an important part of your faith, culture, defense, and road system. Are they still as important as they were in the older times?




    How about something like this? Also, should this be the first prompt?
     
  6. Uighur_Caesar

    Uighur_Caesar Comandante en Jefe

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    That's a bit better. The problem I find with this particular narrative is that most Native Peoples died from European diseases, making conquest a lot easier. Perfect example is how Hernan Cortes went to Mexico once, failed, came back, and by then a ton of Aztecs had died from diseases making his conquest a lot easier. So in this particular case, even if the Brazilians (or whoever) helped the Inca they would still inevitably fall victim to European diseases, debilitating them considerably. So the most reasonably way to combat this is to say that the Inca (or all Native People perhaps) had immunity to those diseases. The problem with that, is that the European diseases that killed most Natives come from domesticated animals, explaining why Europeans had immunities and the Natives did not since they didn't have domesticated animals (except for the lama or alpaca, I forgot which one). So basically, the Americas would have had to have the same animals that Europe did and the Natives would have had to domesticate them for them to develop immunity, changing history and the world by a lot.

    At least that's my convoluted way of doing it and obviously that's a ridiculously different world that requires a lot of changes, basically making it really hard for me to come up with a design, because the world would be so different.
     
  7. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    To be fair, I could see an Incan Empire surviving without the need of Disease Immunity, yes, it played a big role, it actually was the (indirect) cause of the civil war, but there were polities that survived even through the wreckage that caused the epidemics, the Mapuche being the most familiar example to me, heck, you could say this state is actually more of a what if starting off from the Inca from Vilcabamba, had they survived long enough.

    What troubles me more actually is that the Inca retreated into the Jungle, not the mountains, as that was their seat of power and where the Great Road went through, so it wasn't precisely the best place to hide unless they, dunno, hid in caves or something, but the mountains weren't the backyard of the Inca, it was their center, not quite the place you'd retreat to.
     
  8. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    I like this idea, colour me excited! Will definitely try to take part. Will the winner present an alt-history of their own for the next round?
     
  9. GPuzzle

    GPuzzle Available in wax cylinder!

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    Very interesting.

    At the very least it exercises my creative writing.
     
  10. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    So can we start?
     
  11. NiaoMeow

    NiaoMeow Ximicacan? XIMICACAN?

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    Please design a civ that is in someway related to this scenario (ideally an Inca or native civ). Submissions are due in a week (the 21st of October), and the voting period will last 4 days. Remember to be creative, and remember that this cvb does not need to be completely accurate or realistic. Have fun! :goodjob:

    P.S.: if you have a really interesting idea for an alternate history scenario, please post it with your submission!
     
  12. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    In this alternate reality(see what I did there), the incan royal family managed to sneak through the Spanish lines into the royal residence of Machu Picchu. From time to time, they would send their chsqui bands, now armed with European firearms to inform the remaining Incas of their existence, hoping to spark a rebellion... That would some day enable their return to power. From time to time, Spanish officers in labor camps would disappear, and silver was stolen from the mines... Spreading rumors about the mysterious bands and their deeds. From time to time, they would liberate another camp, take another village from the Spaniards, and then return to their Tambo hideouts....
    Now, under Pachacuti the second, the chance for a great rebellion is greater then ever before. But will ye succeed? Will his civilization manage to stand the test of time?!


    Inca Empire(Pachacuti II)
    UA: A star among the Punas
    Gain :c5production: production towards units each time your units enter and move near or adjacent to enemy territory. Units treat hill tiles as roads, and gain :c5culture: culture when healing, fortifying or killing units on them, in addition to not costing maintenance or being effected by ZOC while on them.

    UI: Tambo
    Unlocked at engineering. May only be built in hill tiles, and never adjacent to each other. +1 :c5food: food, +1 :c5culture: culture, doubled if built on a :trade: trade route. If built on a city connection, yields +1 :c5gold: gold and has a chance of spawning a source of Coca*, Which increases its yields by 1.

    UU: Chasqui Band
    Cheaper, weaker(18 :c5strength: strength) and faster(3 :c5moves: movement) than the musketman which they replace, they also gain the "Through the lines" promotion, allowing them and all civilian units adjacent to them ignore ZOC and terrain costs. Also has the "Liberty Preacher" promotion, which makes all adjacent enemies receive damage equal to the bonus yields** of the tile their stationed on, and causing the band to recover HP equal to the damage caused that way, which is increased by 50% if the enemy is stacked with a civilian unit.

    *Coca: +1 :c5culture: culture, :c5food: food and :c5gold: gold. Units heal 5 HP if ending their turn on this tile.
    **any improvemnt\ resource.
     
  13. senshidenshi

    senshidenshi Switched the Red and Blue channels

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    Alright, so in mine the Inca were conquered by the Spanish like in IRL and retreated to the newly created Neo-Inca state. However, over the following centuries, rather than being destroyed, they used guerrilla tactics and adopted Western technology to slowly reclaim their ancient lands from European hands. With much of the gold already pillaged from Cusco, the Spanish armies put up little resistance, and soon the Inca had regained an empire roughly half the size of modern Peru in the Andes. Excellent defenders in the hilly terrain and able to use Muskets and Rifles as proficiently as the Europeans, the fate of Neo-Inca was secured.

    Also apparently the Neo-Incans developed an immunity to smallpox. Shut up.

    Sapa Capac - Neo-Inca (Banner of the Tawantinsuyu)
    Units suffer no terrain penalties from Hills and gain a combat bonus while within the borders of an Occupied or Puppeted city. After discovering a new technology, receive +25% production in all cities when producing units discovered with that technology for five turns.
    (This refers to the traditional "Inca are great on Hills" thing while also referencing the Neo-Incan's success in regaining their captured cities and making use of contemporary Western weaponry)
    UU: Hill Raider
    Unlike the Longswordsman which it replaces, the Hill Raider has an increased combat bonus in Hills and against units which require a more advanced technology than it. Upon defeating a more advanced unit, the Hill Raider instantly promotes to that unit. However, it also receives a combat penalty in open terrain which does not disappear when upgrading.
    (This references the Neo-Incan proficiency with Western technology and defeating superior weaponry.)
    UB: Hollow Shrine
    The Hollow Shrine provides +1 Science on hills, rather than the +2 Science on jungles which the basic University provides. It also provides +1 Culture and +1 Faith for Gold resources worked by the city and provides newly trained Incan units with an additional combat bonus on Gold tiles.
    (The ancient Inca viewed Gold as a religious symbol, however most of it was ransacked by the conquistadors after their conquest of Cuzco. Ever since, it has become even more valuable to the Neo-Incans. Of course, even if there is no Gold to be seen, the additional science from hills should provide an ample bonus.)
     
  14. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    In this world, Francisco Pizarro is either never born or dies before he becomes involved in the discovery and conquest of the Inca Empire. Instead, a slightly more greedy, slightly less pious and slightly more egotistic Conquistador - Juan de Grijalva (Better known to history as Sapa Ti Qirichalva I) led a revolt against Spain, declaring himself the king of the crumbling Inca Empire and hoarding the empires wealth in his new capital just outside of Cusco, Villa Grijalva. Despite the empire crumbling around him, Grijalva desperately attempted to hold on to his new empire and brought thousands of natives to the outskirts of Cusco as slave labourers. Many died but the enormous influx of slaves from the southern andes, and, later - the Amazon, allowed the region to recover from the enormous population losses it faced at the start of the Spanish campaign. Though Spain attempted to invade Juan's Empire, Incan forces were able to hold the line, bolstered by Juans conquistadors, until Portugal intervened in 1561.

    This Imperial melting pot was governed by Juans descendants, the legendary Ti Qirichalva dynasty, for some 200 years, until 1754 when a palace coup, inflamed by ethnic tensions between the traditionally priveleged class of the descendants of white conquistadores, the middle classes of Andean natives and the descendants of Amazonian slaves, brought to the Incan Empire throughout the 17th century, toppled the last Ti Qirichalva Emperor - Thin Antu II - and replaced him with the first ethnically Quecha ruler in generations: Túpac Amaru I.

    The rebels behind the coup, Antiq Antistu in the Spanish-Quecha creole spoken widely at the time, had started as a faction of Aymara mountain men who had been drafted into the Inca-Poyo war of 1746-1752 and performed outstandingly in the tough mountainous warfare which characterised the conflict. As a result, many were given highly prestigious positions in the capital. The Antiq Antistu however, were fiercely nationalistic, believing that the Empire would only truly prosper under a native leader and that the Ti Qirichalva dynasty would always be corrupt and unjust. (even though both Thin Antu II and his father, Hura Nantus I both spoke Quecha and encouraged egalitarian reform) When an officer, Tupac Amaru, raised the possibility of a coup, they carried it out enthusiastically and within 4 months of the arrival of Alqui Chi-lo into the capital, the Emperor was dead and Tupac Amaru had taken the throne.

    Magnanimously, the old nobility, the Qonqui Satato, were accepted back into the fold with some slightly reduced privileges and Amazonians were given far more rights in a new constitution which attempted to balance the ethnic divisions in the nation. Thus Amaru was granted the epithet 'Ul Unithiqador' - the unifier. The Empire unified, Amarus gaze looks west as he readies his forces for an invasion of the newly independent kingdom of the Pampas. But that's another story, for another time.


    One thing I like about this is the Spanish-Quecha creole. The members of the Ti Qirichalva dynasty all have corrupted Spanish names (Thin Antu being derived from Fernando, and Hura Nantus from Hernandez) and things like the Antiq Antisti, which is a blend of the Quecha word for 'Sun' - Intiq, and the Spanish word for 'Walker' - Andador - but both have been corrupted, with the Spanish 'Ds' giving way to a T, for example. Some are more obvious, of course - Conqui Satato being a derivative of the Spanish 'Conquistador'. The icon is a blend of traditional Aymara and Christian iconography - by 1754 the nation was heavily Christianised, though with some syncretic elements which made up the Holy Church of the Andes. The traditional Aymara weave here leaves space for a cross, adorned with four holes to represent Jesus being nailed to the cross.
     
  15. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    Lol you wrote 3 paragraphs instead of 3 lines... :lol:
     
  16. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    Just following the brief m8
     
  17. Tarmont

    Tarmont Empress

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    How about allowing us to pick any civ that fits the proposed Alternate History scenario next week, rather than one pre-defined state?

    For example, in the "What if the Persians had successfully invaded and held Greece?" scenario you could choose between making a design for Persia itself, or for some Thracian kingdom that now borders Persia, or some rebel state trying to split itself from the empire, or even an Italian tribe or Italiot city state that now has to deal with this huge expansionist state right next to them.

    So not only it would give more freedom for the designers, it would make all designs complement each other and help the worldbuilding of the setting. We could even make a quick map showcasing all the nations that we came up with.
     
  18. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    I like this.
     
  19. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    I also support Tarcisiocm's point.
     
  20. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    Redid my design.
    Also, nice scheme urdnot...
     

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