Civ Discussion - French Imperial

[bengalryan9]

Fourth on the alphabetical list of modern age civilizations are the French Imperial. The French are a diplomatic and militaristic civilization with a starting bias towards wine. Their associated wonder is the Eiffel Tower, which gives a base +5 culture and +3 culture and happiness on quarters in the city it’s built. They can be unlocked by playing as either the Romans or Normans, by choosing Benjamin Franklin, Lafayette, either Napoleon, Augustus, Charlemagne, either Friedrich, Isabella, Machiavelli, or Simon Bolivar as your leader, or by improving three wine resources.

Their unique ability is Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite, which allows you to choose the celebration effects of any government in the modern age.
Their unique military unit is the Garde Imperiale, a line infantry that has a ranged attack and which gets +2 CS when within an army commander’s command radius.
Their unique civilian unit is the Jacobin, a great person with a wide variety of possible effects. I’m not going to list them all but they tend to give bonus yields to quarters or bonus combat strength along with a couple other effects (including a special unique tradition).
Their unique buildings are the Jardin a la Francaise (base +5 culture with bonus happiness for adjacent culture buildings or wonders) and the Salon (base +5 happiness with bonus culture for adjacent happiness buildings or wonders), which together form their unique quarter the Avenue, which gives +2 happiness on quarters in the settlement and allows you to train Jacobins.

French Civics:
Belle Epoque – unlocks the Salon and Style Empire tradition, and at mastery gives +2 culture on happiness buildings and wonders
Voie Triomphale – unlocks the Jardin a la Francaise and Cocorico tradition, and at mastery gives +2 happiness to military buildings and wonders and +1 settlement limit
Grande Armee – commanders immediately gain a promotion and new commanders automatically start with one, and at mastery gives +2 CS for each adjacent friendly military unit and unlocks the Bataillon-Carre tradition
Code Civil des Francais – unlocks the Eiffel Tower and grants +2 culture for every policy slotted into the government

French Traditions:
Style Empire – constructing a building gives culture equal to 25% of its production cost
Cocorico - when you defeat an enemy unit, grants culture equal to 25% of its combat strength
Bataillon-Carre – infantry units gain the swift ability, allowing them to ignore Zone of Control
Reign of Terror – increased culture on districts but reduces growth rate be a set percentage. ***Can only be unlocked by Maximilien Robespierre (a Jacobin)***

Thoughts on the French? Are they strong, weak, or just right? How do you like to play them, and what areas do you feel like they struggle at? Which leaders and other civs do you think pair well with them? Let’s discuss!

 

[j51]

I really like them. I like that they finally designed a militaristic French civ. I like the synergy of culture, militarism and happiness. I like the historical flavor of the jacobins. The building and district names are silly. (Why not call it an Arrondissment?) The garde is a lot better than in VI, but I really miss the foreign legion. Also its graphics should update with each version. It looks so silly fighting tanks.

They’re a lot of role playing fun. Too bad modern is so brief and barren.

 

[Leucarum]

I tried them once and honestly can't remember anything about the game... Nothing really grabbed me, which is a shame as the design looked like it had promise... Style empire seemed like it should be fun but the boost didn't really feel noticeable.

 

[queenpea]

My least favorite representation of France in the entire series.

Bring back whatever this was:

 

[Lord Lakely]

Ah, the memory of us chumming over the militaristic french design only for Boris Gudenuf to enter the chat all 'THE JACOBINS WERE TERRORISTS :-/'. Times were happier then.

They're very neat if you're into winning Dom victory. Played them with Oblique Freddy and handily obliterated my neighbours with waves upon waves of Garde Impérial backed by Artillery.

 

[A_Most_Foolish_Fool]

French Imperial embodies the biggest problem with the Modern Age, which is that a lot of what makes it really unique and fascinating to experiment with are also things you probably aren't going to ever get to see when playing optimally. There is so much work that went into designing these civs and it is a shame that we may not get to see how all aspects of them play out in practice until the Modern Age gets adjusted or until there is a 4th age (which in effect would lengthen the Modern Age due to how the age system works).

French Imperial in theory is supposed to be a civ that you go for in pursuit of either Military or Culture victories, but as the game stands, it only seems like you would want to select them for Military victories where you rush your idealogy and then go into the French Civic Tree to pick up your unique quarter so that you can make Jacobins. Jacobins have the potential in certain circumstances to provide an additional 9 Combat Strength, but also provide a number of other bonuses like happiness that help in fighting your wars. The other Jacobin effects are quite nice as well, even as they may not be what you immediately want. A lot of the bonuses that you get do center around using Army Commanders, which means that you are somewhat incentivized to make use of civs that get them more cheaply in prior ages, such as Persia and Rome (which also benefit from having good unique infantry units, so that you have a decent amount of Garde Imperiales going into Modern).

All in all, it is a great military civ, but it is just a shame that a lot of the useful culture bonues (+3 culture on districts, +1 Culture to all Quarters, earn 25% culture from defeated units, getting 25% of culture from constructed buildings, +2 Culture on Happiness Buildings and Wonders, +2 Culture on Policies Slotted in) arrive too late and are too divided (and individually weak) in how you make use of them to warrant going out of your way to pick them up early. I could be wrong on this, but it seems like this civ would feel quite a bit different in games where the Modern Age was longer.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Ah, the memory of us chumming over the militaristic french design only for Boris Gudenuf to enter the chat all 'THE JACOBINS WERE TERRORISTS :-/'. Times were happier then.

They're very neat if you're into winning Dom victory. Played them with Oblique Freddy and handily obliterated my neighbours with waves upon waves of Garde Impérial backed by Artillery.

The Garde Imperiale I found to be not so special, but the sight of waves of little FT-17 tankettes swarming the enemy made up for it.

The best way to characterize the actual Jacobins is from their own invention: Vertical Deportation. This little gimmick was invented by a Jacobin security officer who was ordered to deport several hundred aristocrats: have them out of France in 24 hours. Since they were near Orleans, right in the middle of the country, there was no physical way with the transportation technology of the time to do this, So, he solved his problem wih typical Jacobin thinking: he put 237 aristocratic men, women and children into a river barge, locked them below decks, and sank the barge in the river. Vertical Deportation: another word for massacre, but sounding so much better in the reports. Latest estimates are that by the time other Jacobins got through with this innovation over 10,000 people had been drowned. Stalin would have been so proud . . .

 

[bengalryan9]

I don't have a ton of thoughts on the French as I've only played them once and they didn't leave much of an impression on me. I am currently playing a game as World Conquerer Ashoka and looking at the French kit it does seem like it would be a perfect match for him... maybe I'll choose them if I manage to get them unlocked and give them another shot.

I do think it's cool that they have a Great Person that grants a unique tradition... it stinks that you have to roll the dice in order to actually get it, but that's a fun mechanic I'd like to see more of.

 

[socratic]

I like the focus on the Revolution and the Napoleonic era, that feels like France’s most influential period. I wish I played more of the kit, but I rarely ever play my games long enough to get to Modern (and if I do I’m probably playing Mexico anyway) That being said I hate the Garde Imperiale as a UU in Civ 6 and I hate it here too. They were never large enough to replace a whole class of units like they do in the game.

 

[Foulweather]

Unfortunately, as I've said before, I've played France and I didn't build any of their units or buildings or great people, or research their civics. Just impossible for me to grade a modern age civ with the game in the state it's in.

 

[bengalryan9]

Unfortunately, as I've said before, I've played France and I didn't build any of their units or buildings or great people, or research their civics. Just impossible for me to grade a modern age civ with the game in the state it's in.

...and I've said before, that may be true but we really don't need to have someone make the exact same point in every one of these theads.

I think there's enough to talk about in terms of just examining their tools and potential. It's also not *that* hard to see what a modern age civ is capable of, just put limits on yourself in terms of how you play the age or (gasp!) play a game that actually starts in the modern age (which eliminates a lot of the issues with it, IMO).

Yes, the modern age has issues with how it's currently implemented. This has already been brought up ad nauseum. Everybody knows it. We really don't need these threads to turn into yet *another* place to complain about the game, and if they do I'm gonna stop bothering to put them together because it's honestly kind of frustrating.

 

[uppi]

I don't have a ton of thoughts on the French as I've only played them once and they didn't leave much of an impression on me. I am currently playing a game as World Conquerer Ashoka and looking at the French kit it does seem like it would be a perfect match for him... maybe I'll choose them if I manage to get them unlocked and give them another shot.

I do think it's cool that they have a Great Person that grants a unique tradition... it stinks that you have to roll the dice in order to actually get it, but that's a fun mechanic I'd like to see more of.

I think their happiness bonuses are their strongest feature. They are a good pick if you are running a happiness build (Ashoka/Charlemagne with the Maurya traditions).

They also combine military bonuses wit happiness bonuses. So I would pick them for finishing a world conquest where you either already are or plan to go way over the settlement limit.

There is good synergy also with Friedrich, Baroque. You want to build culture buildings anyway, you print infantry and culture while doing so, those infantry units are even unique and get extra strength and you have the happiness to support your conquest.

They are missing production, gold, or science bonuses, though, so I cannot rate them highly as a generic pick.

And I can take Code Civil des Francis only as an insult to my intelligence. Don't research that.

 

[WillK96]

I tried them once and honestly can't remember anything about the game... Nothing really grabbed me, which is a shame as the design looked like it had promise... Style empire seemed like it should be fun but the boost didn't really feel noticeable.

This is basically my experience with all modern aged civs.

 

[Leucarum]

This is basically my experience with all modern aged civs.

It's not quite true for everyone. Nepal and Mexico have fun mechanics that the see the player actually engage with the game slightly. Japan and Prussia have mechanics which I used, but they are all pretty passive so it didn't feel as good. Siam sounded like it should have been fun but in practice was very meh.

The rest are very one-note IMO.

 

[A_Most_Foolish_Fool]

In addition, Buganda, Mughal, and Qing also have fairly unique playstyles that encourage you to lean in to a certain mechanic (or in Mughal's case dedicating your entire gameplan around setting them up for cheesy nonsense).

 

[Leucarum]

In addition, Buganda, Mughal, and Qing also have fairly unique playstyles that encourage you to lean in to a certain mechanic (or in Mughal's case dedicating your entire gameplan around setting them up for cheesy nonsense).

I have to say Mughals I think are far more of a disadvantage than a playstyle (Money is not hard to come by, what they lose is), Buganda is a semi-distinct playstyle, but I've never enjoyed pillage gameplay and the rest is lacking. Qing felt completely busted in the game I played with them. Not sure if it was a playstyle or god mode... Or just one game going really well.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I have to say Mughals I think are far more of a disadvantage than a playstyle (Money is not hard to come by, what they lose is), Buganda is a semi-distinct playstyle, but I've never enjoyed pillage gameplay and the rest is lacking. Qing felt completely busted in the game I played with them. Not sure if it was a playstyle or god mode... Or just one game going really well.

Money are not a problem often, but to a certain degree. You rarely could afford 10 explorers or buy railroads and ports the moment they are available for you to build. Also, Mughals could buy wonders, which also helps them a lot.

 

[disjointaccount]

Solid for culture, solid for domination. I haven't played a ton of France (I haven't played a ton of most modern civs other than Britain, America, and Japan), but I enjoyed what games I've done well enough. Very solid UQ and the great person with the unique tradition is very fun. Also love the commander promotions in the civics tree. One of the most impactful non-tradition civic tree bonuses in the game, imo.

 

[queenpea]

Solid for culture, solid for domination. I haven't played a ton of France (I haven't played a ton of most modern civs other than Britain, America, and Japan), but I enjoyed what games I've done well enough. Very solid UQ and the great person with the unique tradition is very fun. Also love the commander promotions in the civics tree. One of the most impactful non-tradition civic tree bonuses in the game, imo.

Do you feel like you can get enough of their culture bonuses without playing aggressively / militarily?

 

[Menocchio]

Their culture output is monstrous, and they also make more happiness than you'll realistically need. Their design feels like a mirror of Mexico's, which could be a merit or a demerit to the game depending on your perspective: both have funky interactions with celebrations, "hero" type civilian units, and a culture/happiness combo. France has made going for Domination feel fun to me, but they also run into a problem I've found with several Modern civs: they produce so much of their specialised yields (culture and happiness) but have no way to really utilise the excess. Certainly, having a lot of culture helps whip through the civics tree, but at a certain point—especially with VII's Ages truncating the tech/civic trees overall—having tons of science or culture is not really the game-defining factor it comparatively is in VI. Leaders like Ashoka have neat ways to make use of excess happiness, but these types of bonuses are fairly rare across the board.

And, in the end, they're a Modern civ. By the time you reach them, how much that they individually offer really matters?